Galpin Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Helmut, would you be willing to share what setup you and your friend have on your EFI 6cyl Jabiru engines. I have a 6cyl waiting to be placed into my Lightning and am interested to know what you have done.
Guest Flyer40 Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Well I never intended to put the EFI guys on the defensive, I assumed it was obvious that I was talking about mechanically injected engines being hard to start. But I'm glad it has revealed that EFI can be adapted to the Jab. This is news to me and like Galpin I'd really like to hear more.
hfrensch Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Galpin, I am currently helping my brother build a lightning, and 2 of my freinds are also building Lightnings. all 3 will have EFI which will be based on my Jab system but modified for the Lightning. Cheers Helmut
Spriteah Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 dIESEL Australian diesel is now at a very high standard (ie Low sulphur) well at least Shell's is. Hence you are starting to see lots of new cars with diesel motors. They have been in Europe for years but only just comming here as our fuel is now good enough. And Maz? Little unsure what you are saying. Your friend puts jet (kero) in his diesel? Somthing odd in that I think. Spriteah.
Guest Redair Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I seem to recall that BMW had developed a small diesel engine for LSAs, just can't remember where I saw it, but then again, it could just have been a dream... I do have a lot of lie-downs! Redair.
Guest RogerRammedJet Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I have flown the new generation fuel injected Lycoming powered C172, C182, C206 - the old generation fuel injected Continental powered C185, C206, C210, C310, C402 - and the one with probably the worst reputation for starting, the fuel injected Continental powered Bonanzas - plus Barons - and Mooneys! Can't say any of them were hard to start - hot or cold. Read the book, follow the instructions, start the engine - seems simple enough! Rog
Guest airsick Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Read the book, follow the instructions That's where I am having troubles then. My wife reckons I can't follow instructions.
vk3auu Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Cessna now has a Skyhawk fitted with a diesel, along with all the trimmings like FADEC. See http://se.cessna.com/skyhawktd/ David
Guest Flyer40 Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 I have flown the new generation fuel injected Lycoming powered C172, C182, C206 - the old generation fuel injected Continental powered C185, C206, C210, C310, C402 - and the one with probably the worst reputation for starting, the fuel injected Continental powered Bonanzas - plus Barons - and Mooneys!Can't say any of them were hard to start - hot or cold. Read the book, follow the instructions, start the engine - seems simple enough! Rog Good onya Rog. You must be a real pilot. The owners forking out for aux power sockets must be crap pilots with all the flat batteries they're getting.
Guest RogerRammedJet Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 The owners forking out for aux power sockets must be crap pilots with all the flat batteries they're getting. Ahhh.....You said it not me! Rog
Spriteah Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Diesel Red Cessna has a new 172 that is diesel. Very nice, light and powerful but not cheap, then again no cessnas are!!!!
Matt Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 AAnd Maz? Little unsure what you are saying. Your friend puts jet (kero) in his diesel? Somthing odd in that I think. Aviation "diesel" engines (or more correctly - compression ignition engines) are designed to run on Jet A1 more so than the diesel fuels used in road vehicles. As with avgas engines, this is due to the standards applied to aviation fuels which makes their contents, performance etc. consistent. The present problem I'd expect for bug smashers with these engines would be the availability of fuel, a lot of non-RPT airfields don't have Jet A1.
Guest RogerRammedJet Posted February 12, 2008 Posted February 12, 2008 Flyer, its pretty obvious from your post that you think I was beng a smart alec, but that was not my intention (in this instance!). It was merely an attempt to establish a few bona fides. My post was genuine and honest. I have operated all of the aircraft indicated. I am somewhat staggered that owners of new Cessnas (for example) are having trouble starting them to the extent that they are flattening batteries and feel a need to buy aux power leads. Although I also carry aux power leads I have only ever used them on my own aircraft once - due to a flat battery unrelated to starting difficulties. I would normally equate starting difficulties with itinerant pilots rather than owners - who usually know the intracasies of their aircraft. In my experience - if you use the procedures in the POH they will start. If you come unstuck, again in my experience, they will all start if you use a "flooded" start technique ie make sure it is well and truely primed (ie flooded) - crank it with the mixture fully lean and the throttle fully open - when it starts push the mixture in and close the throttle to idle. Two speed fuel pumps have made life a bit easier starting fuel injected aero engines. Most will respond to starting with the pump on "low". The engine with the worst reputation is the IO520 in older Bonanzas/Barons. The combination of a hot engine, hot day, the unique fuel injection set-up on those aircraft that makes them particularly susceptible to vapour lock - combined with only a high speed fuel pump, makes these a serious challenge. Over the years Bonanza owners/operators have devised a number of "foolproof" methods for hot starting them. However, by-the-book works every time in my experience. Is this yet another example of the decline in training standards and general lack of experience in GA? Rog
IanR Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Rog, I agree with you that if you follow the checklists and use standard methods that they all seem to start OK. Most pilots who fly lots of different tupe of aircraft (I include myself in that) use checklists all the time to avoid the subtle and not so subtle differences. I think the difficulties start when you have pilots who have only ever flown one type of aircraft - for example a C172. They are used to starting carby engines and don't use checklists as its all in their heads. When you replace your old aircraft with new ones they have problems for a while in adjusting !!
Mazda Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 It's true that they will start, but not necessarily as easily as someting like a C152 started hot all day every day by low time students. As an example, a Pitts being wrung out in a sequence at low fuel (low weight) then landed for refuelling and more flying. One hand holds the stick back, one hand operates the mixture (ICO), one the throttle (full), and one hand to start the thing, then when it starts sorting out the mixture & throttle while still holding the stick back. (And possibly another hand for the checklist if this is required, but you need a lot of hands). Add to that the possibility of the prop being reluctant to turn in some high compression engines, and it adds up to being a little more difficult than mixture rich, throttle set, start on the C152.
Spriteah Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Diesel Thanks for that clarification Matt and appoligies to Maz. I think the newer diesel tech is based around conventional diesel fuels. Time will tell. spriteah
Guest Flyer40 Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Nah Rog. I was just trying to keep up with your smart alec'ness. But you caught me out being by serious for a change. But I'm happy to admit that as an inexperienced and infrequent flyer, although I always use the checklist (try starting a G1000 without one) I sometimes struggle with the technique of starting an injected engine. It's not the complexity or length of the starting process that bothers me. I guess my point was that the mere fact you need to master some technique to start an engine in this day and age is stupid. There's no reason why it shouldn't be as easy as starting a car.
Guest J430 Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Roger when you learn to be a real pilot () you will find those Bo's are no trouble to start ......cold or HOT, which is when most seem to come unstuck. The secret is you need to master the fuel pump shuffle, a uique dance that would be far easier if we were born with 3 hands, and capable of using them all at once;) J;)
motzartmerv Posted February 13, 2008 Posted February 13, 2008 Ya just gotta hold ya tounge in the right position and ya won't have any problems..
Methusala Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 My Aeropower 2100 utilises original Bosch Jetronic manifolds and other hardware scavenged from an old 1600 ts motor. A new efi pump and filter coupled to programmable computer and there you have it. Simple as a conventional system and faultless, once set up. I add that of course you need about 10 or 12 amps to run it. Regards, Don
Guest RogerRammedJet Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 you need to master the fuel pump shuffle Tell us more J430. Where did a Jabiru pilot learn a Bonza trick? Rog
Guest J430 Posted February 15, 2008 Posted February 15, 2008 If I tell you that....I'd have to shoot you!;) If you truly know....you'll understand!:big_grin: J
Guest Ginger Posted February 17, 2008 Posted February 17, 2008 Thanks - also Diamond DA42 Diesel Thanks to all for thoughts and insights. PS on the Diesel motor question, the following link provides some info. http://casa.gov.au/fsa/2003/nov/56-57.pdf
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