Prices

[Ben Longden]

Just out of interest, How much do you pay?

 

Add your local school /club prices in the following thread;

 

(Price is for a Tecnam P92)

 

Bendigo

 

$132 Dual per hour

 

$99 Solo hire

 

Shepparton

 

$153 Dual

 

$110 Solo

 

Ben

 

 

[peter]

Perhaps you ought to clarify the ages of the respective planes, features etc ,do they include ground instruction and presumably are all based on engine time -- at the respective airports how much time do you lose waiting due to heavy traffic in the circuits, waiting to backtrack on a runway or are there additional taxiways etc etc

 

Just some thoughts

 

Peter

 

 

[Guest AusDarren]

Non Linear Rates.

 

The other one to watch out for is rates where .4 is not 40% of the hourly rate

 

Oasis at Point Cook use this one, so the hourly rate only applies to flights of 1 hour or more.

 

Flights of less than one hour are at a sliding scale. (READ Higher rate..)

 

I am not aware of any other Training schools using this method.

 

Regards,

 

AusDarren

 

 

[Ultralights]

$125 Dual, $105 hire. for jabiru.

 

$120 hire for Technam

 

in syd

 

 

[Mazda]

Thank God for Recreational Aviation is all I can say. At least it gives people an opportunity to learn to fly.

 

I trained in GA and when I first started the dual rate for a C152 was $85 per hour. The C172 dual was $95. A few years later Citabrias were about $110 (I can't remember if that was dual or private hire though). After I did my twin training I used to hire a Partenavia for $175. I guess it is relative but flying still seemed expensive. I'd save up for months to do a block of flying, but at least I could do it.

 

The dual rate in a C182 is now over $400 per hour!!!! How can people afford that? No wonder people are moving to Recreational flying!

 

 

[Yenn]

I certainly can't afford it, when I started it cost about $22 per hour in a PA140 and I found the other day the price for all my theory training by College of Civil Aviation, by correspondence , it was $20.

 

The real prices were half that but in pounds and it was 1967.

 

Those were the days!

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Are these hrly rates wet or dry?

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Not sure about Bendigo, but Shepp is wet hire, and time is not by the flightswitch... its every second the electrics are on..

 

Both have new Tecnams. Shepparton has three at the moment with the oldest, just sold (but online) having 800 or so hours.

 

Ben

 

 

[WestCoast]

If my memory serves me correctly, in 1965 I was paying 6 pounds (about $12) an hour in a C150 and the rate charged for dual or solo was the same. But to put things into perspective, when I got my first flying job in 1967, my pay was $50 per week!

 

Dave

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Some of you old fullas musta learned not long after the invention of the aeroplane...hehe..dig dig...Wright flier 2 shillings / hour...hehe

 

I pay $128 per hour solo for a J160... but apparently (now ive got my ticket) they have introduced a special of $80/ hr DRY...oh, and theres 10% gst and a $10 landing fee at camden...grrrll...so most hours end up costing around $150

 

Mazda, who charges that for duel in a C182??...i'll avoid them like the plague..hehe... our school hires a partnavia twin for $ 375/ hr..

 

 

[Guest Dukes]

Flying is a very expensive hobby, but somehow I find the $$ to learn. Its the best thing i've ever done. But there also comes the time where its time you want to have the freedom at your own leisure. What are you guys thoughts on buying a plane ie. long term finance/saving etc.

 

 

[Guest Dukes]

Hi mat, just looked up the rv6. It looks like a nice plane, hope it all goes well for you.

 

 

[Guest Dukes]

Sure is a jab. Here is a link.

 

http://www.jabiru.net.au/J230D/J230-Leading-The-Way-(No-Pr.gif

 

Its my instructors plane, very nice glass cockpit.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

 

[WestCoast]

Mat...I share a hangar with a guy who built an RV7. Nice aircraft and he has it fitted with Dynon (glass) http://www.dynonavionics.com/

 

If you decide to go for it, I suggest you order the bright screen versions which is 800 nit as against 400 for the standard screens. (about US$200 extra each for the EFIS & EMS)

 

I have the Dynons with standard brightness screens but as my aircraft is high wing, I don't have any sun glare issues. (see pic)

 

Regards....Dave

 

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Don't get confused between airswitch and taco / vdo. A true 'airswitch' operates when the aircraft reaches a certain speed, whereas a VDO operates when the engine is running. Be wary of school's operating aircraft where the hour meter operates when the key is switched on as if you leave it on accidentally you might be up for a lot of hours. This is due to a poorly wired / cheap dash configuration.

 

It is fairly unusual for operators to charge based on airswitch and those that do generally have a higher rate than elsewhere. It is common in twin engine aircraft and some larger HP models to operate off airswitch. One of the reasons for this is that it encourages more responsible engine operation. When you are paying by the VDO on engine time hirers are reluctant to take their time in the warm-ups and runups and take off on cold engines which is not only dangerous but is not good for wear and tear.

 

There are a couple of schools around Melbourne operating on the loaded system as Darren has mentioned where .4 is not really .4 but more like .5 or .6. This is to stop the school losing money when lessons don't run for an hour and to load up the price for TIF's. As some schools do a lot of short (say 30 minute) TIF's they find that they are wasting time and turning away valuable 1 hour lessons for established students so they need to make up the shortfall somehow.

 

Some schools also charge their aircraft 'dry' at an hourly rate and add an hourly rate for fuel which is variable based on the fuel price at the time, however I have only seen this in GA schools.

 

 

[IanR]

our school hires a partnavia twin for $ 375/ hr..

Is that $375 their dual rate ? I was thinking of getting checked out on it - was talking to the CFI last week but forgot to ask rates. Their website says $320 for private.

 

 

[Mazda]

Ha! Mozart that is the same Party I used to hire for $175 (when it was newer and shinier!)

 

Airborne charge $409 dual for the C182s, and $448 for the Party.

 

 

[Yenn]

I definitely recommend owning your own plane, but it depends upon what you want.

 

I fly purely for fun, so the single seater is fine for me.

 

A Corby can be bought for $25000, according to the ads I have seen, running costs are fuel about 10l per hour, Say $17. Oil about 4l per 25 hours when changed, plugs about$25 per 50 hours. Registration and RAAus membership, from memory $260 per year.

 

Of course if you want a 2 seater it all gets more expensive, but there is a Jodel in the magazine for $28000. I would assume about 20l per hour, and you would still have cheap flying.

 

If you want one of the plastic, or aluminium fantastics, with glass cockpit, you are straight away in an altogether different league, and you may even have more fun.

 

 

[Guest sceadu52jr]

Redcliffe Areo Club C150 ....$18ph solo, 22ph dual in 1975. Affordable for me even on third year apprentice wages! I had my 10am booking every Saturday. The insurance component was lower back then!! People hadn't thought about sueing each other! These days, the money seems to filter out to so many other things too.....

 

I recall some aircraft were charged out on Tacho time & some on VDO time. I always liked tacho time when just flying around the paddock, cruise on less the the calibrated 2500rpm=1 hour and 1 Real Hour would only be around 50/55 minutes tacho time charged.

 

VDO time encouaged pilots to run higher RPM to shorten trip times & save money.

 

Don't know that it did the engine any good though!

 

Wayne

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Here are a few facts and figures from the ‘Traditional’ ultralight area.

 

When operating my school the hourly rate for a Thruster was $110 p/h of engine running (and still is 7 years later on the Thruster familiarisation, technique and taildragger familiarisation flying that I still do from time to time).

 

Pre and Post Flight briefings were/are free but formal white board style lectures were $20 per hour.

 

All fees were pro-rata – you only pay for what you get.

 

All fees were by the watch – not a gadget on the instrument panel. This ensured people paid only for what they got, and were not paying for something they were not getting – neither was I out of pocket either!

 

To explain the latter point – with a meter measuring in 1/10ths of an hour you can be 6 minutes adrift either way! That is rather a lot of money if you are paying $180 per hour and while you can log the time legally, you did not actually do the time!

 

To illustrate: 5 seconds after switching on the engine the meter clicks over and you are paying for 5 min 55 seconds you did not have. When you get back and switch off 5 seconds after the meter has clicked over you are paying for another 5 min 55 seconds you did not have.

 

But there are a number of wrinkles! Where is the actual operating expenditure on the aircraft itself? Basically from the time the engine starts to the time it is switched off. I allow 2 mins temperature warm up on start and one minute cool down and equalisation of temperatures on close down – so that is 3 mins where you are not actively moving the machine but that time is going on the engine’s TBO time which does cost a lot of money when it happens every flight session.

 

Equally you are paying for the taxiing, time spent on checks, waiting for other traffic etc. It is in this area that a major part of operating expense occurs for the school. The taxi alone is causing more airframe wear and tear than flying. Flying cost on a non fatigued life aircraft (that rag and tube generally are) is really only about fuel usage and engine servicing/rebuild time (other than undercarriage wear and tear from landings and take-offs) plus the instructor’s time.

 

From the above – if you choose an airfield which requires a lot of time spent taxiing and/or holding then your actual flying cost is going out of sight – or the school is going broke depending on how fees are being calculated.

 

From the instructor’s point of view a flight time only scenario can have them slaving for 8 hours for 3 hours flying and the school only pays them for the flight time. Not a very good income source as working seven days a week you only do half a week’s work, and usually on poor pay anyway.

 

On the other hand – charge for every second and you will not have a customer base because pupils are basically driven by cost and not quality.

 

There are other factors as well. Value for money! Irrespective of the motivations and competence of the instructor – the normal person stops active learning after 30 minutes of intensive skill based instruction. So your maximum ab-initio flight time should be no more than 40 mins allowing for the low stress areas spent on the ground. Schools charge by the hour! So potentially 1/3 or your flight time is wasted and, even worse, you are making mistakes from mental fatigue by the end of the exercise and get out of the aircraft demotivated! That costs you more money – or could even totally waste all you have spent because you give up!

 

Every rated flying instructor should have been taught that in the mandatory PMI (principals and methods of instruction) component of the instructor course they did. But many schools persist on actually flying (or booking and charging for) one hour sessions! Two 40 min sessions with a break in between while another student is flown can give you effective training value of 2 hours for 1hr 20 actual flight time!

 

As you will have gathered – value for money for students are dear to my heart and I am doing something about it. With the Thruster Swift project that I am working on it still becomes practical to offer training at around $110 per hour but do so in a fully enclosed, roomy cockpit trainer in either four or two stroke variants that can offer both responsible tail dragger training and full flap systems and trim management with a 70 knot cruise speed at sensible fuel consumption.

 

The question originally posed on this thread is not actually as simple as “what does it cost”!

 

Aye

 

Tony

 

 

[Vorticity]

Thats actually a great point that Tony put forward! I know I was really lucky with my instructor. I did most of my training mid week so was quite often the only student. During the initial training we would take off, do an exercise for 20-30 minutes and then land at a different airfield. We would stop, have a coffee and talk to whoever was there. Quite often I would only log 1.5-2.0 hrs or so for a whole day. I actually asked at one point "cant I do more? shouldnt I be practicing X activitey again" only to be casually told, well I could, but it would be a waste of time.

 

This was in contrast to 'value' offered by some other schools that put me off flying for a long time. It wasnt their hourly rate that was poor value it was their attitude toward training and coaxing the dollars out of you. One school demanded that if I learnt with them I must sit through a $600 set of night classes to learn BAK, even though I have a degree in Aeronautical Engineering...... My eventual instructor just used pre flight briefings to draw out my own knowledge and apply it to stick and rudder skills. Value for money training means more than a cheap hourly rate.

 

 

[Guest jimbo_xyz]

Clarify Bendigo rates

 

Ben,

 

Bendigo Flying Club operate a Tecnam Super Echo. Where the dual rate is $160. There is also Bendigo Recreational aviation run by a Doug Walters who has a Jabiru 160. I believe this is the pricing you saw for $130 dual.

 

I will be going with the Flying Club when I begin training shortly. Mainly because Doug only really operates weekends and I want to train full time during the week. I've heard good reports from all about both schools.

 

Cheers,

 

James.

 

 

[blueshed]

Hi Guy's

 

Jamestown Flying Group, Jamestown South Oz, have a new shiny J230 (lovely aeroplane), to private hire it you need to be a Group Member,$50/year, and it will cost you $120 pvt hire. Of course after being instructed on how we would like our aircraft operated and checked out by the appropriate person or persons.

 

Dual hire is $180/hour and includes ground briefings in and out of the lesson.

 

These prices are wet and are tacho, not sure how the tacho actually functions, other than that the master was left on by a club member overnight and the tacho did not tick over so to speak and the battery did not go flat. And fule is reinbursed, when you purchase it away, at the rate the club pays for it!

 

Cheers Guy