willedoo Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Been scanning a few old photos my dad brought back from the war & found this one of a downed Catalina. He didn't have a camera, so I guess one of his mates took the photo. His memory is getting a bit shakey lately, so he can't shed any light on it. I've been looking online to try & piece the story of it together, but, as often is the case, it's not easy. What I have found out is that the code letters RK are 42 Squadron. According to the ADF serials website, where it's listed under it's RAAF serial number A24-101 ( http://www.adf-serials.com/ ), RK-G was recorded as being damaged on 3/7/45 & later in the year, salvaged & converted. I'm trying to track down some information as to location & cause of accident, etc. The ADF Serials site doesn't mention where it is, but I'm guessing Balikpapan for a few reasons. The photo was very small, hence the lack of image quality: [ATTACH=full]897[/ATTACH] Looks like another Catalina moored offshore, ahead & on the port side of RK-G. The landings at Balikpapan started on the 1/7/45, so the date coincides. The above photo must have been taken some time after it crashed/ beached or whatever the cause was, as I found this next photo online, taken when the tail was still complete: [ATTACH=full]898[/ATTACH] To the rear, it looks like the starboard float torn off & lying in the water, so maybe it crash landed or was damaged in a soft landing. I'm not sure what model it is, but I found some earlier photos of it undergoing maintenance & it is an amphibian. This photo shows quite a bit of shipping in the background & the faint outline of a large bay, which re-enforces the idea of it being at Balikpapan. The first photo my father brought back with him shows some sort of writing or grafitti on the side & it looks like the horizontal stabilizer & rudder have been cut off for parts. He was at the initial landings & then in the bush for a couple of months, so his photo was possibly taken when they got back to Balikpapan. The only other Catalina incidents I can find in connection with the Balikpapan area are 2 sinkings, neither of them from 42 Squadron, and one other photo of an un-identified Catalina with the title ' A Catalina lost at Balikpapan while bringing in blood plasma'. There's a good possibility it might be the same one, here's a photo of it: [ATTACH=full]899[/ATTACH] It's been interesting digging around for information on it, especially when I'm not too familiar with Catalinas. Seems like the RAAF had some different models, some of them flying boats, some amphibians, also some amphibians later converted to flying boats. I couldn't figure out why all the ealier RAAF Catalina acquisitions were delivered to them from Qantas. It turns out that they acted as a middle man because the US was still neutral at that stage & wouldn't supply direct to the RAAF. Some of them were sold back to Qantas after the war. I'll keep digging around & hope to find out some more about this one. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Cheers, Willie. [ATTACH]18062[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 There is a good chance the small head-on photo is the same aircraft as in your dad's photo. It looks like the engines have been removed in both photos. Cheers, Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 There is a good chance the small head-on photo is the same aircraft as in your dad's photo. It looks like the engines have been removed in both photos.Cheers, Peter. Thanks, Peter, I noticed the lack of engines in the first photo, but didn't make the connection with the last photo. I think I'm wrong about it being an amphibian, as 42 Squadron were still mine laying a month prior to this. As far as I can find out, the Cats minelaying were converted to flying boats to save weight by removing the undercarriage. So that would rule out an attempted beach landing. Possibly it landed where it is on a higher tide & struck a sandbar, or was damaged in a landing in deeper water & towed inshore. The earlier maintainence photos that I saw somewhere might have showed it propped up rather than on wheels. Should have bookmarked them, can't find them again. The photo hasn't been published before, so if anyone wants to use it for any reason, feel free to do so. Cheers, Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siznaudin Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Marvellous piece of sleuthing Willie ... much appreciated. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty 1 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Maybe this site could help http://www.catalinaflying.org.au/ Here are some pics at Kempsy when they brought PBY back to Australia[ATTACH=full]925[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]926[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]927[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]928[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]929[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]930[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]931[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]932[/ATTACH] Pics arn't great but the people at the web site might be able to help Cheers Scotty [ATTACH]18076[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Maybe this site could help http://www.catalinaflying.org.au/ Here are some pics at Kempsy when they brought PBY back to AustraliaPics arn't great but the people at the web site might be able to help Cheers Scotty Thanks Scotty, I'll check it out. Another place I might try is the War Memorial, they have the third picture I posted, the front view one, so they might have some info on the incident. Much appreciated. Cheers, Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Marvellous piece of sleuthing Willie ... much appreciated. :) Thanks, Geoff, haven't been able to find out any more about this one yet. One of the more enjoyable things about looking up the history of old aircraft is the amount of other stories that you come across in the process. It's easy to get side tracked, there's so much out there. Cheers, Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 The photos with the crowd around the Cat really give it a sense of size & perspective. Thanks again for posting them, Scotty. Cheers, Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siznaudin Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 A mate of mine had a flight in one at Wanaka a few years back ... water takeoff & landing too, I seem to recall. It co$t, but he reckons it was fanta$tic! Here's the HARS specimen - photographed after we'd finished the National Veteran Car Rally at Mittagong in March of this year. [ATTACH=full]933[/[ATTACH=full]933[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]935[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]18077[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWB Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Next time I'm talking to my Great Uncle, Wing Commander Frank Slater (Ret), I'll see if he recalls anything. Frank was a Warrant Officer Flight Engineer on a Catalina that crashed at Georgetown, Nth Qld, in the early 40's. He received a George Medal & a British Empire Medal for bravery after rescuing the pilot from the burning wreckage. The rest of the crew perished. He was only telling my mother just recently how he is still haunted by the widow of the other pilot coming to the Base & berating him over not saving her husband. Frank later became a pilot & flew Catalinas amongst just about everything the RAAf had in conflicts in WWII, Korea, Malaysia, Vietnam. He is still spritely at 89 & lives near Taree. He dabbled in ultralights & Gyros after retiring, but had a few mishaps, like a lot in the early days of these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Next time I'm talking to my Great Uncle, Wing Commander Frank Slater (Ret), I'll see if he recalls anything. Frank was a Warrant Officer Flight Engineer on a Catalina that crashed at Georgetown, Nth Qld, in the early 40's. He received a George Medal & a British Empire Medal for bravery after rescuing the pilot from the burning wreckage. The rest of the crew perished. He was only telling my mother just recently how he is still haunted by the widow of the other pilot coming to the Base & berating him over not saving her husband. Frank later became a pilot & flew Catalinas amongst just about everything the RAAf had in conflicts in WWII, Korea, Malaysia, Vietnam. He is still spritely at 89 & lives near Taree. He dabbled in ultralights & Gyros after retiring, but had a few mishaps, like a lot in the early days of these things. I bet he'd have a story or two, Dexter, with a career like that. Going by ADF Serials http://www.adf-serials.com/ , the catalina would be A24-105. ADF Serials doesn't list your great uncle's name ,as there seems to be a bit of confusion with another crew member named Sattler. If you google RAAF/Catalina/Georgetown, the first few hits are newspaper items from the government archives, but the only accurate one seems to be the Sydney Morning Herald, which lists your great uncle as a survivor. The other news items mistakenly list one of the pilots, Leo Sattler as a survivor. Similar spelt & sounding names must have led to the confusion at the time. Cheers, Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWB Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Willie there is a bit about Frank here. This story relates more about Lincolns & Mustangs but I have enjoyed reading it. It does mention his flight in the ill-fated Catalina. I must test his memory on this Lincoln simulated dogfight sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siznaudin Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 There's reference to A24-101 here (page 94), if the link works ok ... and I have not been able to find any subsequent reference to it in the rest of the squadron log. http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=1358858&I=1&SE=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted December 20, 2011 Author Share Posted December 20, 2011 There's reference to A24-101 here (page 94), if the link works ok ... and I have not been able to find any subsequent reference to it in the rest of the squadron log.http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=1358858&I=1&SE=1 Thanks for a great link, a lot of reading there. It was interesting to see the crew names listed & dated a month or two before it crash landed. Much appreciated. Cheers, Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siznaudin Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Yeah, but I would have expected to see its crash landing recorded in the squadron log. This is all assuming that -101 is in fact the Balikpapan Catalina. I reckon there's still a way to go with this one. Anyway, it'll give us something to do over Xmas ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah, but I would have expected to see its crash landing recorded in the squadron log. ;) Yes, it's a bit of a mystery, Geoff. The ADF Serials site lists the date it was damaged as 3/7/45, the landings started on the 1/7/45 so the time is right & the photos look a lot like Balikpapan Bay. Having said that, still nothing definite & the squadron log has no record of it that month. ADF Serials also list it as being with 113 Air Sea Rescue Flight in 1945, but no date. I'm wondering if it transferred to the Air sea Rescue Flight & retained it's 42 Squadron code letters, or even if that was normal practice to do so. I haven't been able to turn up much information on 113 Air Sea Rescue Flight. There will be something, somewhere. Cheers, Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siznaudin Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hmmm... well here's a bit more, but I don't think it really satisfies completely. Still lookin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siznaudin Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 And a bit more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 Between the 42 Squadon log & these record cards, it's really starting to tell a story. Looks like it was new from the States three months before joining 42 Sqdrn, then flew every month bar one from August 1944 till 21st. May, 1945. The only month it had no operations listed was April & the record cards show it in for maintenance at 1 Flying Boat Maintenance Unit for that month. I couldn't find any mention of it in the Squadron log after May 21st, 1945,where it was laying mines around the Chinese coast.. The entry in the cards above dated 7/7/45 lists the accident date as 3/7/45 which coincides with the date given by ADF Serials. The authority column on the right says 42 Sqdrn as does the damage assement entry on 10/7/45. Looks like it was still with the squadron when it had the accident & appears to have a casualty number, 194 ( or possibly 794, hard to make out). I'm starting to wonder if some pages are missing from the squadron log, as it should be in there. The squadron log is a wealth of information, I counted ten different crews who flew in A24-101 while she was with 42 Squadron. The longest flight it did was about eighteen hours, most were long hours which might explain all the down time for maintenance. Still trying to decypher the first card above. Looks like 9 Repair & Salvage Unit took it over & converted it, which I think is conversion back to conventional amphibian landing gear. The plot thickens. Much appreciated, thanks. Cheers, Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 Well, I'm still looking; searching the history of these Black Cats is a bit like opening a tin of worms. The 42 Squadron log has no mention of A24-101 after May, 21st., 1945, but the AWM has photos of it as part of a 42 Squadron detachment working with the USN Air Base at Leyte in the Phillipines, dated 10 days before it was damaged. They say the detachment was on mine laying & courier duties: http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/OG3094 Starting to piece together a bit of it's 42 Squadron history, many thanks to Siznaudin for posting A24-101's record cards & a link to the 42 Squadron operations log. Here's a rough story of it's sixteenth mission with 42 Squadron: In January of 1945, 42 Squadron's Catalina's mined the approaches to Surabaya in Eastern Java. Based at Melville Bay & operating from East Arm, Darwin, they had to re-fuel at West Bay RAAF Marine Section, near Truscott Air Base on the West Australian Kimberley Coast, in order to extend their range. Five aircraft took part in the mission, with A24-101 assigned the position as Duty 1. The others were A24/88, A24/93, A24/96 & A24/97. A24-101 was skippered by Squadron Leader Ken Grant, who often assumed tempory command of the squadron in the absence of the usual commander, Wing Commander John Costello. Two second pilots were on board, Wing Comander Ian Allen, AFC, and F/O Falstein. Other crew members present were F/O Brandon (navigator), Warrant Officer Skett (wireless operator/air gunner), F/Sgt. Beer (W.O./Air), Sgts. O'Mara & Murrell (flight engineers), Sgt. Sainsbuy (fitter 11A) and Sgt. Priestley (Armourer). Departure time from East Arm, Darwin was 9.40 pm on Monday, eighth of January, 1945, for the three hour flight to West Bay, arriving at 12.40 am on the ninth. After re-fuelling, they left West Bay at 4.55 am for the flight to East Java of almost nine hours, arriving over the target at 1.59 pm. The only enemy resistance was a single shot fired from a ship near the breakwater at Surabaya. During the mission, observations were recorded and propaganda leaflets dropped over Lombok and Sumbawa. Arrival time back at West Bay was 10.45 pm, after a flight of 17 hours, 50 minutes. A fifteen minute fuel stop saw them leaving again at 11pm and arriving back in Darwin at 1.40am on Wednesday, the tenth of January. Total flying time for the mission was twenty three and a half hours. [ATTACH=full]947[/ATTACH] There's a Wiki page on the Truscott Air Base, near the site of the old West Bay Marine Section. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mungalalu_Truscott_Airbase Apparently it's re-opened & used as an air base for off-shore rigs. Its interesting to see on their page, a photo of a Grumman Mallard flying boat used to service the pearl farms. They say they own 3 of them, all with turbo prop conversions. Cheers, Willie. [ATTACH]18083[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siznaudin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just a thought here... I wonder how deep the water has to be before a Catalina which has suffered terminal landing/takeoff damage is labelled as "sunk"? I wonder how much tidal movement there is at Balikpapan ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Just a thought here... I wonder how deep the water has to be before a Catalina which has suffered terminal landing/takeoff damage is labelled as "sunk"?I wonder how much tidal movement there is at Balikpapan ... Good question. I'd guess being a boat as well as an a/c that this one would be classed as sunk. The photos look like the tide comes in around it; looked up an online tidechart & they're not big - a metre or so. Photos usually show shipping moored a fair way out, so its probably shallow out from the beach for a fair bit. Another question is how much depth of water is needed to take off & land. I see in the record card posted above an entry on 7/7/45: ' A/C damaged alighting 3 July ' Looked up two definitions of the word 'alighting': 1: to come down from something (as a vehicle): as a : dismount b : deplane 2: to descend from or as if from the air and come to rest : land, settle So is 'alighting' flying boat terminology for landing the aircraft, or do they mean it was damaged while unloading cargo or crew, as in being hit by a tender or something? Possibly a bit off topic, but I noticed an entry in the 42 Squadron log posted above. It's from March 1945: [ATTACH=full]949[/ATTACH] Turns out that HMAS Sea Mist & the one that burnt, HMAS Steady Hour were 2 of the 3 patrol boats that destroyed the Japanese midget submarine in Sydney Harbour 3 years earlier. There's a lot of stories in that squadron log. Cheers, Willie. [ATTACH]18085[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siznaudin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 .... Looks like 9 Repair & Salvage Unit took it over & converted it, which I think is conversion back to conventional amphibian landing gear. The plot thickens. I've just had one of those "why didn't I do this earlier" moments and Googled for Catalina/Conversion/RSU ... and I'm wondering if we might possibly be talking about "conversion to components"? ...and an addendum which, while having nothing to do with A24-101, makes for a fascinating read. Let's hope the link works for you, chaps. http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/maritime-archaeology-web/sites/default/files/history-and-archaeology-of-raaf-catalina-flying-boat-a24-1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 ...and an addendum which, while having nothing to do with A24-101, makes for a fascinating read. Let's hope the link works for you, chaps. http://www.museum.wa.gov.au/maritime-archaeology-web/sites/default/files/history-and-archaeology-of-raaf-catalina-flying-boat-a24-1.pdf Thanks for the link Geoff, very interesting reading & it answers my question above about their use of the term 'alighting'. There's a map in the pdf showing alighting and take off paths at East Arm in Darwin. So it looks like 101 was definitely damaged on landing. Cheers, Willie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willedoo Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 A bit of useful information about RAAF Catalina's in here: http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/duigan_terry_aircraft.html also some 1944 prices on a RAAF Catalina order, a Twin Wasp for $11,000 USD, & props for 1500 each: [ATTACH=full]953[/ATTACH] Cheers, Willie. [ATTACH]18089[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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