Search for ultralight crash survivors

[Sky Gazer]

....But can anyone speculate on how the perspex from the screen lands on the beach and the plane spirals into the sea 700m offshore? ....Beno

Just speculation as you say - Have you seen what damage a bird strike can do to a canopy/fuselage? Now multiply that by ten and you can guess what a pelican can do to a canopy and occupants? Catastrophic collision followed by uncontrolled aircraft- spiral dive airframe ripped to pieces???i_dunno

 

My sincere condolences to the families and friends of both men.

 

Peter.

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

Zenair Crash

 

Go to the Matronics list server http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html and go to the Zenith page and type in the word crash you will see a list of wings falling of planes.

 

[url=http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html][/url]

 

 

[Flyer]

Unfortunately ATSB are not likely to investigate this. Unlike the UK or the USA a private flight and an experimental a/c is not likely to get priority.

J

I think you will find that they will investigate it.

 

Feb last year a Vans RV4 crashed near Cranbourne killing the pilot and his passenger. The report is up on the ATSB website for all to read and it was a kit aircraft.

 

I tend to agree with Big Pete, let the ATSB do their job and we will debate it later. Speculation helps nobody.

 

My sincere condolences to the family/s and friends of Gary and his passenger.

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Phil, as I said, I think the ATSB are obliged to investigate ALL Ga registered aircraft be they experimental or otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong. Maybe techman knows?

 

 

[Yenn]

Another very sad day and another family gutted.

 

My first thought was bird strike, knowing how big a pelican is they always scare me and they could easily incapacitate a pilot.

 

 

[Guest J430]

Darren & Flyer

 

You can hold onto these belief's.....and I do not disagree with your feelings on the matter, but the facts are they do not investigate all of them. Yes the RV accident, maybe two on board, or allegations of illegal flying....not sure what the criteria are.

 

Just do not hold your breath as you may turn blue. In this case they may well investigate it. I hope they do.

 

J

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

The RAAF lost an F1-11 when a Pelican came thru the canopy and took out the pilot, the poor Navie decided to eject as the aircraft rolled inverted. unfortunatly they were very low level and it fired the cockpit into the beach. A recent BRS save in the USA when a Snowgoose took out the main spar of a Lazair.

 

I hope our speculation has encouraged some to check their canopy hinges and latches.

 

Ozzie

 

Always with our safety in mind

 

 

[Guest dracer]

seems to be some negative feelings towards members posting aboput this accident.

 

i hope that members realise, its natural for people to talk and make assumptions as to the happenings of such an accident, its human nature and a grieving process.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I'm reading elsewhere that it has been determined that the wing or wings did not fall off and that they were in-tact as the aircraft spiralled, based on video footage. It was also said that the canopy was not sighted in the footage, so your suspicions may in fact bear some truth.

 

 

[Guest Harrop]

Such a sad sad story.....

 

I train @ Aus. Wings Academy where Andrew and Gary worked.

 

On the Friday afternoon, Andrew cooked a BBQ for all staff & students, and then a few hours later, this happened

 

It has also been confirmed that both wings were in tact when it hit the water, speculation around the flying school is of a bird strike.

 

It's just one of those things that happen. Gary was a very experienced and safe pilot. There have been quite a few times when I've been on final 14 @ Gold Coast, only to have a flock of pelicans fly across my windscreen :confused:

 

Lets hope they find the wreckage very soon! I feel so sorry for their families....

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

As I said before, a bit of canopy could be construed as a wing to some witnesses. They are many times unreliable.

 

 

[River]

Gold Coast News online

 

Update...

 

March 12, 2008 03:46pm

 

Camera to aid search for lost men

 

IT'S yellow, has a headlight, a high resolution camera, can operate underwater for hours and water police hope it will help them find the bodies of two pilots missing after a kit plane crashed into the ocean off Narrow Neck last Friday.

 

The state-of-the-art, $75,000 Sea Otter underwater camera has been loaned to police by the Gold Coast campus of Griffith University.

 

Water Police boss, Acting Inspector Barry Day, said it was hoped the camera could be used in the search.

 

He said the police boat was over the crash site again yesterday morning and although weather conditions had eased from Monday, the sea was still too rough to carry out any underwater search.

 

The water police have been in contact with weather scientists in Sydney and they have indicated that Friday is the most likely day to carry out an underwater search.

 

"We are at our wits' end with the weather. I have everyone ready to go but we can't control the weather," said Insp Day.

 

"But we remain committed to finding the aircraft and the men, and as there is little current movement in the crash area we are confident the wreckage will be in the vicinity and we are also confident that we will find them."

 

Pilots Garry Sweetnam, 48, and Andrew Mitchell, 33, were on a 20-minute flight in the home-made Zenith Zodiac plane, as a check before an air show, when the aircraft plummeted into the ocean.

 

Many Gold Coast pilots believe a bird strike caused the crash.

 

Acting Insp Day said Griffith University experts showed water police how to operate the Sea Otter yesterday and they would test the camera near their base while waiting for the weather to change.

 

Griffith University PhD student Darrell Strauss said the Sea Otter had a sophisticated electric motor propulsion system with two motors, for forward/reverse and vertical/lateral thrust.

 

Mr Strauss said it was capable of travelling at five knots at depths up to 20m and was attached to a 76m cable. The system included a colour camera that sent images back to a screen on the boat.

 

The university used the Sea Otter for marine surveys and had offered the equipment to police after Coastal Watch staff raised the issue, he said.

 

Acting Insp Day said sonar imaging had detected some possible sites for the wreckage and these would be investigated as soon as the weather broke. Police believe the wreckage is lying between 12m and 17m down.

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

They have found them late today, still in the wreckage. It took Gary's friends about 35 minutes to locate the plane when they went looking themselves !! So much for the Police technology, more to report later when i catch up with the divers

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Really? wow..Thats sort of good news i spose, for the family they can start the grieving process instead of being in limbo..

 

Once again love and condolences to all the friends and family of Gary and his passenger..

 

 

[mr badger]

i meet gary when i was thinking about buying a zodiac saw the aircraft in question at bunderburg airshow and fell in love with it aranged to see and talk to gary at the gold coast i spent an afternoon with him a nicer man you could not meet and had time for all my questions we even went to aeroplane and i looked all over it in it it was stunning so well built to.

 

it is a very sad day for aviation such a highly respected and talented man has left us.

 

i feel for his family and send love to them in this very distresing time

 

 

[vk3auu]

There have been several reported instances of earlier Zenair CH601 canopies detaching in flight and as I understand it, the aeroplane was still able to be flown without any problem. The aircraft in question had a different canopy arrangement which under normal circumstances, would not have detached, even had the catches unclipped. I would be reluctant to blame a detached canopy as being the initial cause.

 

David

 

 

[River]

Gold Coast New Online

 

March 14, 2008 12:25pm

 

Update...

 

Mates Find Missing Plane and Bodies

 

A GROUP of friends who vowed to stop at nothing to find a lost mate have finally brought closure to the widows of pilots Garry Sweetnam and Andrew Mitchell.

 

The eight, led by Mr Sweetnam's long-time friend, pilot Peter Gash, said they could not sit back and let the families continue to suffer, so they joined forces in a bid to locate the doomed Zenith Zodiac which crashed into the ocean off Narrow Neck beach on Friday afternoon.

 

They set out yesterday morning, battling 2m waves and rough conditions.

 

Mr Gash said the men did one dive and found some wreckage but no plane.

 

Exhausted, they came up for air but something told them to keep going so Mr Gash said they did a second dive at midday and, exactly 23 minutes later, they had success.

 

One of them found a piece of the plane and as he picked it up to examine it, he looked further ahead and spotted the wreck.

 

All that was left of it was the engine, a steel rail, the seats and the bodies of the two lost pilots still strapped in. It was sitting on the ocean floor about 20m from the surface.

 

It was a moment of both happiness and devastation for Mr Gash and the men.

 

While he had found his friend, he had also confirmed his death.

 

"Garry Sweetnam and I have known each other for a long time," said Mr Gash. "On Friday afternoon I flew over the top of Garry about a minute or two before he hit the water.

 

"I was heading back (to Coolangatta) from Lady Elliot and he was heading north.

 

"I heard his voice on the radio and he was happy as he always was.

 

"I was back for about half an hour before I heard what happened.

 

"We realised by Sunday that it was in a difficult location and the police were having their challenges with it in the conditions, so we decided to get together a group of people who might have had the ability to perhaps help the families, to bring them closure.

 

"From the footage (of the crash) it was obvious no one was getting out of that.

 

"We needed to bring it to an end.

 

"We got the co-ordinates of the last known site.

 

"Four of us went out on Monday in some pretty horrendous seas."

 

While Mr Gash and his friends were diving, helicopter pilot Scott Menzies took to the skies to look for clues.

 

"While he was doing that, he spotted an oil slick," said Mr Gash. "We worked around it but Paul and I on our own at the bottom with visibility at 2m or 3m ... it was pretty ordinary.

 

"We didn't have a lot of success then and there but it's the old 'one step at a time'."

 

Mr Gash said another pilot spotted the oil slick again on Tuesday afternoon.

 

"It just reinforced to us that the oil slick was really there and that at least the engine was there," he said.

 

They gave the police the information but rough conditions prevented them from searching properly.

 

"So we put together a team of blokes," said Mr Gash. "Everybody here gave up their day, their time, their money, their fuel, because they are committed to the families.

 

"We went out there with a really basic plan ... a bit of paper and a piece of rope, and we stayed with our plan.

 

"On our first dive we found several pieces (of wreckage) which encouraged us.

 

"We had enough air for one more dive. We went back -- we were all pretty tired.

 

"As I went down in the water he (boatie Phil Tattles) said to me, 'Pete, just go off the anchor about 20 or 30m more to the southeast'.

 

"That was the 20 or 30m that made the difference."

 

The men were connected by a 40m piece of rope and as they made a sweep of the area they found the plane.

 

"The objective was to find the fellas. The fellas were there," said Mr Gash. "We marked it, put a big rope on it and a buoy at the top ... and I said my goodbyes to an old mate.

 

"It felt great.

 

"The images of the blokes aren't what we saw. What we saw were the images of the family having some closure.

 

"We felt we may have contributed in some way to ease some of the pain.

 

"My heart was breaking for those families.

 

"We just kept at it.

 

"But, I have to say it was going to be our last go.

 

"When I got out of the water I was so tired I could hardly use my phone. I didn't realise how hard I'd been working."

 

They eventually found the wreck about 100m southeast of the site where the plane crashed.

 

Mr Gash said he was beginning to believe a bird strike was behind the crash.

 

"We think he hit a big bird and it just came through the cabin.

 

"I think they were incapacitated very quickly."

 

Their actions drew praise from both police and the pilots' families yesterday.

 

Mr Sweetnam's wife Kay was too distressed to speak publicly of her loss yesterday but Mr Mitchell's wife Anita gave a brief statement.

 

"They have been very generous and I thank them for that," she said of the men.

 

"We've been overwhelmed by all the love and support we have received from family and friends as well as the hundreds of prayers on our behalf from our church family around this country.

 

"I feel really blessed that we had our time together."

 

Mrs Mitchell also thanked the water police, some of whom had worked in their own time to help find her husband and Mr Sweetnam.

 

Acting Inspector Barry Day said police had managed to identify the site of the plane yesterday morning after days of searching with both sonar equipment and an underwater camera.

 

"Some private divers who are friends of the family went out to that location and dived on the site prior to the water police divers arriving and fortunately located the aircraft and confirmed it was the location," said Insp Day.

 

He said they contacted police who sent divers to the site late yesterday afternoon to finally retrieve the two men.

 

"The discussions I've had with all the friends and family of these two missing pilots have demonstrated to us how very much loved they were in the community.

 

"We have had requests from every facet of the community, wanting to go out there and dive on the site.

 

"Most realised that they couldn't because of the severe conditions but these friends decided to brave the 2m seas (yesterday).

 

"It's an absolute amazement to us that these people have great support in the community.

 

"Our goal was to get the pilots back to their family."

 

Insp Day said police were hoping once the aircraft was recovered, light would be shed on what led to the tragedy.

 

"At first reports the aircraft has been damaged severely," said Insp Day. "In fact, most of the aircraft framing and cover has been removed leaving only the seats, engine and one steel rail that supports those two items."

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

Picture attached

 

 

 

[yharry]

um, it might be nice for the moderators of this forum to check and see if the deceased, garry sweetnam, and andrew mitchell are members of this forum and remove them from the forum and email updates, as i have contact daily with one of the wives and the barrage of news on this accident isn't helping.

 

his email address is constantly getting emails on this subject.

 

if someone wants to pm me with proof of their credentials, i will pass on the email details - but you better be able to prove yourself, as i do not wish the families to suffer anymore.

 

and perhaps refrain from any more posts here,

 

pm me if you wish, however i also am suffering from this, so keep it simple.

 

safe travels

 

harry

 

 

[Captain]

yharry ; Surely emails would only be automatically received by the families if they had contributed to this particular thread and opted to receive auto emailed updates. That can't be the case unless the families have done it.

 

 

 

Are you sure they are originating here?

 

 

 

I am fundamentally opposed to the prohibition of any discussion of accidents "to save the families", as long as it is reasonable and sensitive and I think this Forum does a good job to control that.

 

 

 

The gliding community chop off such discussion all the time and the end result is that nobody learns anything from or about any accident, and they pretend they are "safe".

 

 

 

I support the existing moderation policy of this forum.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

um, it might be nice for the moderators of this forum to check and see if the deceased, garry sweetnam, and andrew mitchell are members of this forum and remove them from the forum and email updates, as i have contact daily with one of the wives and the barrage of news on this accident isn't helping.harry

I can't find any record of either of them by name. If you could PM me the email address(es) being bombarded I will fix the problem immediately. Please convey our apologies to the bereaved families and reiterate our condolences. If we had any knowledge of their membership here they would have received nothing but support.

The check you suggest had already been conducted.

 

 

[yharry]

i did ask to check if they are members of this forum, as i do not know that.

 

i agree with factual reporting -let's keep it that way.

 

this isn't the only aviation forum reporting this matter.

 

pm coming at you slarti'

 

safe travels

 

harry

 

 

[Guest Fred Bear]

Harry with all due respect, and I stress with all due respect this is a forum so there are going to be discussions, factual or not. It's part of grieving and supporting each other as we are all in the same community at the end of the day. I doubt they would be getting emails from here re this topic unless a family member has subscribed to this thread, which in order to do that they would had to have posted and by the way you are speaking of the families grieving at the moment (and rightly so) I doubt they would be surfing these forums.

 

 

[Guest Macnoz]

I can see why this becomes an emotive issue

 

God forbid but I were to go down in the morning my family would continue to read about it and all other incidents for as long as they are in the news.

 

I have more news alerts and automatic feeds that I can point a stick. Most of these are anchored in the home email because of understandable requirement to have other than a free web based email for subscription.

 

They already rang (home is Bris but I work in NSW during week) me because this morning’s sad incident in Camden has made the C9 news and they knew I was flying out of CN today.

 

I suppose we have an individual responsibility to contain the comet trial we expose our families to.

 

 

[timshel]

I read the entire posting. On your suggested website

 

Check this out. http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2008/03/15/8879_gold-coast-news.html

 

"Sen-Sgt Kelly said the cause of the crash was yet to be determined.

 

"At the moment the investigation is at a very early stage," he said.

 

"The coroner will determine the cause of the accident.

 

He said a bird strike had not been ruled out.

 

"There was nothing foreign found in the cockpit -- in fact, there was very little found in the cockpit," said Sen-Sgt Kelly.

 

"From the wreckage it would appear to be a fast impact at high speed. Both wings are still attached to the plane."

 

It seems that wings falling off is not the cause.

 

Perhaps birdstrike, or some other canopy failure causing loss of control