Flying Training

[Guest Nerb]

What are the legalities of training someone to fly? Can anyone with an instructors license teach someone without being part of a flying school? Can the instructor teach anything they have an endorsement for?

 

 

[Spin]

I'm sure the Ops manual has it in more detail and precision, but from my understanding of the regs, no, an instructor needs to operate under a CFI in a registered school - although the supervision is sometimes fairly distant in cases where schools operate from multiple bases. As to the second, I believe the answer is yes, although I do have some recollection of their being a currency requirement as well eg tail dragger, low performance etc.

 

 

[Guest avi8tr]

Any instructor would know how it works so if you are looking to learn to fly you'll need to have a chat to an instructor. If you are looking to become an instructor, I give the same advice, have a chat to one about what you can and can't do.

 

Either way as lee previous post, an instructor needs to be associated with a school.

 

 

[Guest Nerb]

ok, so you cant just pay someone with the appropriate license outside of a school and they get more and i pay less?

 

 

[cficare]

nope!

 

 

[mnewbery]

My un-informed opinion agrees with cficare.

 

 

 

You can't count the hours towards your exam or licence qualification(s) unless your logbook is verified by an L1 instructor. L1 instructors are usually either the CFI or a full time instructor for a school. Every L1 instructor I can think of is one or the other plus you and your instructor need to keep a log of your competencies as you pass them. If the instructor isn't L1 or isn't working for someone who is, the training can't be counted by CASA towards minimum hours. Refer CAR 4.64 and CAR 5.76

 

 

 

More info on CASA flying instructor ratings:

 

http://casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_90305

 

 

 

L1: Trains and tests flying instructors and students, recommends students for GFPT and PPL, can teach all things for which the instructor has a qualification. Keeps the training records up to date. Buck stops here.

 

L2: Can teach Day VFR syllabus and send a student solo including student transit through controlled airspace for Student Pilot Area Limit

 

L3: Can and does teach ab-initio up to solo

 

 

 

As an example, say I grew up flying around in my parents' plane. After a while they get bored and I end up flying on a student licence with one or the other as the pilot-not-flying. One of my parents is an instructor ... Unless I am enrolled with a school that has an AOC (yet another certificate) and the instructor is authorised to provide training under that AOC (e.g. they are employed by the school) the hours don't count. Not only that, going cross country or doing local navigation doesn't count unless it is authorised.

 

 

 

CASA will check all of this, periodically. Once you have a PPL, you are on your own again until more training or a BFR or a type rating / feature endorsement starts ... at which time you need the L1 instructor again.

 

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

I love my instructors by the way. I must do, because I keep giving them $$$.

 

 

 

So by all means, seek out whatever instruction suits you and fly your best but eventually you are going to have to sludge around the training area and circuit for 20 hours (GA VFR Day requirement pre GFPT), do some solo circuits and some navs, some basic IFR, pass your pre-circuit-solo, pre-area-solo, radio and GFPT exam (not in that order) and then think about your CASA cyber exam. 40 hours (??) are required including solo and basic IFR hours before the CASA practical exam. Your L1 instructor needs to recommend you for your GFPT and PPL practical exams. Some of these hours can be done in gliders or three axis (Group A) RA-Aus aircraft. Dick Smith would rather this last bit wasn't so. Recently (I heard) a CASA testing officer refused to do an exam because a student had 20 hours in a Gazelle, pre CPL. I never heard if it got resolved in the student's favour but please check everything for yourself.

 

 

 

Refer ATC Manual - Basic Aeronautical Knowledge Chapter 5: Air Law, page 161

 

 

 

...Or get a recreational licence

 

 

[Spin]

Aaah, clunk penny drops, I somehow misread the question and thought it had been posted under the RA-Aus section, to which my answer was directed. Much the same position except that the requirements for starting and operating a flying school under the GA system are rather more onerous.

 

 

[cficare]

thats why i 'ignore' ga these days.........no point!

 

 

[Guest Nerb]

Thanks guys... fyi i have my gfpt... not ppl yet.

 

Only 2 hours were in a gazelle, but most are in a B77. I just want to continue on training and the tight-arse in me requires looking at options. :)

 

 

[Guest Michael Coates]

nope!

Not to mention the insurance legalities in an accident !

 

 

[bas]

Damn shame we don't have that here. In the US, you can be an independent instructor, which makes training more affordable and accessible.

 

And seeing as they have the exact same accident rate as we have here, it doesn't seem to be a safety issue.

 

 

[djpacro]

In the US, you can be an independent instructor, which makes training more affordable and accessible.

Now is the time to lobby for it with the new draft Reg Part 141 of December 2011, "Recreational, private and commercial pilot flight training other than integrated training" floating around although comments were to be closed by 17/2/12. It has been floating around for a decade or so like the other draft Regs so who knows when it will be finished - I had understood that the Aviation White Paper required these to be finalised by the end of 2010.http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PARTS141

 

Part 141:• addresses training for the grant of recreational, private and commercial licences and other single pilot flight crew qualifications (does not extend to integrated training);

• does not require an AOC but requires an Authorisation. The removal of the requirement for an operator to hold both an Air Operator’s Certificate (AOC) and an Authorisation to conduct flight training in an FSTD’s will also eliminate some compliance costs.

[68volksy]

New suite of changes on the GA side of things - Part 141 as mentioned above does look set to change all this. The new reg will remove the need for an AOC for flying instruction - it will be replaced by the granting of an "Approval" instead with much reduced requirements. Training of CPL and above will still need be done by an AOC holder under Part 142.

 

Won't go any way to reducing the cost of flying training as most organisations don't try to recover the cost of their AOC. It will create a new category of flying training organisations though.