Another step closer

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Hi all

 

Completed my first nav in Australia today. YMMB, YIVE, YLTV, YMMB. Whoopee!

 

I'm posting this in the just landed because I don't quite feel "grown up enough" to post in the general discussion. My kids would tell I'm not that young however :-)

 

My instructor told me I should be pleased how I performed today. I knew where I was every step of the way but in my enthusiasm to spot my locations I tended to drop/gain a bit of height whilst I was looking out the window or at my map. It was also a very hot windy day and on the YLTV/YMMB leg back home it got a bit rough with 20kt northerly winds over the hills bouncing me around a bit and continually forcing me off track for a while. My instructor also helped a fair bit with the radio calls. I thought woman were good at multi-tasking but on a first nav?..... mmmm won't argue the point on this occasion!

 

When I finally arrived at YMMB I found myself tired and dehydrated. Probably should've taken some water along. Also need to manage my paperwork in the cockpit a bit better.

 

All in all, today was really enjoyable and a real buzz for me...... also a confidence booster! I'll get there one day!!!!

 

Karen

 

 

[Guest Decca]

Well done Karen! 'Tis a tad warm. I would not complain though, if only I wasn't grounded. You're instructor sounds like he has a soft spot, I bet mine would be doing everything to try distracting me!

 

Ian Baker has in his pilot shop (Clear Prop) a product called Flight Recovery. It's a rehydration supplement you may be interested in. I haven't tried it yet in flight, but worth looking at.

 

Regards, Decca.

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Thanks for your advice Decca

 

I'll give it a go if the weather doesn't cool down!

 

I think the distraction will start next time! I had a bad experience I can only use as an excuse for so long...........

 

 

[biggles]

Hi Karen ,

 

Congratulations on doing your first Nav. Your comments about cockpit management reminded me of the same problems I had , when doing my Nav's in a little LSA Jabiru in Queensland some 2 years ago . Like most people my age , I wear glasses for reading and , under the watchful eye of my Instructor, I well remember trying to fly the aircraft , navigate , communicate , and having paperwork flying everywhere , with the airvents full open due to the heat . I lost count of the number of times I 'lost' my glasses on the floor , and very nearly gave the idea away . I could'nt see how things could improve , after all there isn't much room in a little Jab for an average size Instructor , and a silly old fool as a student . Fortunately my wife encouraged me to continue . Although I made some slight improvements to my cockpit management over the next few Nav's. , I was still feeling uncomfortable . On the day of my solo Nav. I was naturally a little apprehensive , but could not believe the feeling of freedom flying over this strange country , and the spare room I had , without that extra body . The little Jab. didnt seem so small 'today' . I had plenty of room for my paperwork on the spare seat , and by that time my cockpit management had improved a little anyway . I really felt comfortable for the first time , as I'm sure you will . So keep focussed on the what you have been taught , and , as I found out , things will fall into place , and your solo Nav. will be an enjoyable experience also . Good Luck !

 

Bob

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Bob and Mat,

 

I take on board your comments. I had neglected to mention my initial loss of pen too. Luckily I was able to whip my instructors out of his shirt pocket.

 

I also appreciate your "sweaty" comments Mat. I managed to incorporate a bit of simulated at the same time and jeepers, I was sweaty!!!

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Hi Karen,

 

Congratulations on the nav. I found when I was starting out that writing all the frequencies down on my plan helped me out with cockpit management. For example if I was leaving Canberra I would jot down the ATIS, Gnd, Tower, appropriate approach frequency, area frequency, CTAF for destination, nav aids along the way, etc. I don't do this so much anymore but I found it helped me to stay in front of the plane and allevaited a bit of the stress in the air at the beginning.

 

I haven't tried Ian's rehydration stuff but I use the DIY Gatorade powder you can buy at Woolies and Coles. They cost around $10 a tub and make 8 litres so they aren't bad value. It is better at rehydrating than plain old water and cheaper than buying a bottle or two at the servo on the way to the strip.

 

 

[Yenn]

Congratulations Karen.

 

I am re learning to do the organisation work as flying a small single seater leaves no room for storage and anything dropped is something lost.

 

I like to have all the info on the chart, maybe in the margin if it is available but I don't have room to fold and unfold charts so copies are a great tool. I prefer to put 2 lines on the chart about 5 miles off, that is so there is no hiding of info directly on track, also 10 mile markers are a help.

 

As I don't do much long distance flying, my proposed trip to Narromine will sort me out.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Sorry to drag the thread a little off topic but Ian just reminded me of something. He mentioned 10 mile markers whereas I always like to use 10 minute markers.

 

There are advantages to 10 mile markers in that they are fixed in terms of distance but what about time? Depending on wind it may take you 5 minutes or it may take you 10 minutes to travel the 10 miles. Other than time wise (and looking out the window of course) how do you know when you have travelled 10 miles and therefore when to expect the expected landmarks?

 

With 10 minute markers I know where I should be in 10 minutes which makes it easy to know when to expect the landmarks. Problem is if wind isn't doing what it is meant to then the 10 minute markers are inaccurate and you may have to make chart alterations in flight. In practice I haven't found this to be an issue as the wind forecast is generally fairly accurate meaning 10 minute markers are only out by a little bit.

 

Interested to hear others thoughts on this.

 

 

[sain]

Congratulations Karen, well done.

 

To handle the dehydration problem myself I take a camelback (actually by another, cheaper, company but hey) along with about 2-3 litres of water in it. That way I can drink from it as I'm flying along and doing other things with my hands . The only important thing is to remeber to take the tube out of your mouth before making radio calls, lest you drown your headset microphone. While solo it just sits on the seat behind me, for duals I just wear it like normal - its quite comfortable.

 

One thing I found helps a lot on navexs is to take along an inflight meal (starbursts or jellybeans or lollipops or something) to distract the instructor with.... (perfect if you've screwed up and need a quick diversion to fix it - just "encounter some turbulance" as they are opening the bag).

 

Seriously though, it does help a lot with maintaining comfort and attention, and if your instructor has had a busy day they'll probably be greatful for the snack while they are hoping you get lost so they can see some different scenary for once.

 

Airsick, personally i find the 10 mile markers make more sense to me, especially on those days when the forcast is out by a fair bit (my first solo nav was forcast for 15... started at about 3-4kts, wound up roughly 15ish on my final leg). I know one of the other guys at goulburn much prefers the 10 minute markers.. I guess it comes down to personal taste. You could always mark both and see which one you end up using.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Sain,

 

I have tried the 10 mile markers but prefer 10 minute. I just find it easier to go for a positive fix every 10 minutes together with the rest of my CLEAROF checks instead of working out how long it takes to go 10 miles on each leg in flight (you have to work it out at some point, I just prefer to do it on the ground).

 

I was just interested to hear other peoples thoughts more than anything.

 

PS. I have just started a poll in another thread to explore this further so post your comments there!

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Thanks Bob

 

I can so totally relate to your story. It is hard work and no-where to put all the paperwork!!! I missed most of the beautiful scenery along the way....Batting my eyes at my instructor PLEEEEZZZ I'm a helpless female.... (don't be deceived I am not but a good line that works once or twice!) will not work next time. (I strung out my first solo for too long and he is on to me now :-) ) My next XC is planned for Easter Monday and I've already been told the radio work is all mine this time.. Hopefully no-one on this forum is listening!

 

Kaz

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Hey Airsick

 

Your name brings back memories I'd rather not talk about :-)

 

I actually already did what you suggested and had all the frequencies written down, also the time slots to recheck my postitions albeit not quite every 10 miles. Can I ask you, do you use the whizz wheel to check this? It still makes things very busy!!!

 

Kaz

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Hi Ian

 

I agree with you. I feel an invention idea happening!!! Anybody know of anything that can work this out already (not GPS)? If not I am sure there is an easily designable portable software package. If not I'll ask Santa....or talk to my IT friends :-)

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Hi Sain

 

That's also an excellent idea re the "camelback". I was so thirsty when I got back I went straight to the chilled water which gave me an immediate "headfreeze" (everyone must know what one of those are)

 

Re the sugar lollies.... I have a truckload of those I can steal of the kids :-) I am sure I can distract my instructor with those (have a few other ideas I'll try if that doesn't work)

 

Kaz

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Hi Flygirl,

 

Yes, I do still use the old whizz wheel. I find it quite simple, quick and easy to use. After a period of not flying and hence not using it I have found I get quite rusty so I try to stay on top of it as much as I can. Also I don't have a plane of my own so I fly a few different ones which means I am not fully conversant with the GPS in each. This forces me to stay on top of my visual navigation skills (which is a good thing).

 

My flights tend to follow a pattern. At top of climb I will get a positive fix as soon as I can and then do a ground speed check soon after. This will allow me to verify and alter where necessary my charts. Generally a few knots here and there won't make much difference so there usually isn't much to change - going from 105kts to 95kts means changing from a bit over 17 miles every 10 minutes to 16 miles, 10kts is a fair change that doesn't occur that often (although not unheard of) and so most changes will be slight. This allows me to revise my ETA, etc.

 

Another thing I find handy is to mark the halfway point. This makes it easy to do course corrections. Find the track error (using 1 in 60 rule) if there is one and then double it get get back on course by time you get to the waypoint. Eg. If you have travelled 30 miles and you are 4 miles off course then to parallel your planned track you need to correct your heading by 8 degrees. If this is the halfway point, 30 miles to run, then you simply need to correct by a further 8 degrees, 16 in total, to hit your waypoint.

 

Hope this helps. :)

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Hey Airsick

 

Thanks for your tips. They make perfect sense. I need to go over what u said with my instructor and understand it from the bottom up.

 

Many thanks

 

Kaz

 

 

[sain]

I'm fairly new to the nav stuff (only recently passed my test) but I found it helped a lot to have a plan for when your going to do stuff, so you don't forget things (like writing down ATD... whups).

 

This can be as simple as thinking the whole flight through in your head, maybe with reminders written on your map for when you need to do certain things, like frequency changes and inbound calls. Think about the major landmarks you'll be looking for as well, so you can easily keep track of where you are on the flight.

 

The other thing I found I needed to do was practice doing the paper plans a lot, and do "imaginary flights" where I do the time/speed checks on the whizzy wheel. I found without a fair bit of practice that I was very slow doing the revised estimates, despite this being quite an easy one to do. If your amazingly bad at maths (like i am) it might be wise to blue tac a el cheapo calculator to your kneeboard/folder, so you can quickly check your mental arithmatic.

 

Another thing that is good to practice is to write down 6 or so towns (or nearby airfields) and then use a dice to pick one. Plan a divert to that town from some random point on your plan (though make it easy for yourself and make sure the point is right next to/over an easily recognisable landmark). Remeber the instructor is going to do this to you in flight, so its handy to be able to do it quickly and easily. If your instructor is nice they might hold the stick for you while your doing this, but you might want to practice doing the wizzy wheel calcs one handed (just in case they are busy picking up starbursts...).

 

With regard to landmarks make sure you check with some of the more experienced pilots that they are actually there... don't do what I did on my first nav and pick the midpoint on a dried up lake as a point for my timecheck, or on my first solo nav when I picked a town that doesn't exist yet as a waypoint where I needed to change direction. Which reminds me... practice doing your diverts - it really sucks trying to do one while your brain is going "oh crap, i'm lost - should I call melbourne centre and ask for a heading to my next waypoint (or home!), or trust that those landmarks down there are the ones i think they are on my map" and turbulance is bouncing the plane around.

 

Hope that doesn't sound scary (because its only momentarily scary). Basically just practice lots, think about what things on your map are going to look like and don't be afraid to call for help if you end up not being able to figure out where you are - it'll take hardly any time for the controller to figure out where you are, and give you a heading to fly to get you somewhere safe.

 

My first solo nav was a wonderful experience (flew past bungonia gorge - very pretty from the air), despite getting myself lost (and finding myself) twice. Its a great feeling cruising along a few thousand feet up, watching the scenary go by (landmarks - yay I'm not lost!), following a plan that i'd made myself (well, diversions on a plan i made myself (damn, i'm lost!)) and listening to the friendly chatter on the radio.

 

Anyway, enjoy the your next nav - hope my advice helps you avoid the mistakes I made.

 

EDIT:

 

Re: your invention

 

Ian sells them at clearprop in the nav section - the little nav computer dohickey. Laptop software wise this would also be very easy to do, but the whizzy wheel does get very quick and easy with practice, and its a lot cheaper.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Sain, you raise a very interesting point about lakes. I was flying near Old Adaminaby a few months back and got myself a little confused. On the map the town is right on the edge of the lake but when I got there it was some distance away. It took me a few moments to realise what was going on.

 

I also like your idea of flying the plan before you fly the plane. I used to do this while learning and found it a very effective way to nail the flight. Rolling the dice is a nice addition that I never did but I can see some real merit in doing this.

 

 

[brothach]

Hey all, great thread...

 

just wondering...when you say "fly the plan' before you fly the plane do you mean in your head or on a sim like MS FS? (sorry if this is obvious but I'm very new to all this!)

 

Maybe I should have posted this in the sim section but I have been wondering if in anyones experience these sims are realistic or not? I can only fly in simland atm as the moneytrain hasnt quite arrived and was curious if I was actually getting any benefit from that? sorry for off topic

 

Brothach

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Hi Sain

 

I think your suggestion is a great idea and I'm going to practice the diversions with a dice as you have suggested before my second nav next monday. Maybe I can surprise my instructor by being proficient when he drops the diversion on me! I just need him to tell me where we are going first......

 

Welcome Brothac

 

I actually flew the plan not in my head, but using Google Earth beforehand. It made identifying the landmarks much easier!!! I even took pictures of some of these along with me. It also helped me visualise how I would approach the landing strips.

 

A pilot friend of mine use MS FS and flew every nav on this first. I recall him mentioning to me that there is some software you can use to upgrade the quality of the local terrain but am not sure of this.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

When I talk about flying the plan I mean going through it in my mind and clarifying what is going to happen and when. I am not the right person to ask if flying it in a flight sim would help as I haven't done it before. My intention when flying it in my head is to figure out what to expect along the way so I guess if the sim you use does this for you then it will help.

 

 

[blueshed]

Hi Kaz

 

What type of aircraft are you flying? or what is the planned cruise speed?

 

The two most important things whilst navigating are "heading and time, time and heading" oop's thats four ting's!

 

Pastic covered maps are good and a chinagraph pencil or a couple of different colours, with these you can draw on plastic and rub them out,d o all sort of calcs etc.

 

Do you have an analogue watch? It makes a great abacus! as you can add and subtract using the face.

 

Cheers Guy

 

 

[Guest Flygirltake2]

Thanks Guy

 

I fly an Alpha 160A which cruises at 110kts. I have a picture of it in my personal profile (can you see?) but haven't figured out how to get it onto post thread yet.

 

Anyway, I have found out tonight that my next nav is Moorabbin, Point Ormond, Bendigo, Mangalore, Moorabbin. Too tired to work it out now but will have a crack at it later this week using the tips from my new found accomplices who are proving to be invaluable!! Thank you all!

 

Guy, on the watch front, I have about 8 watches none of which work cos they all need battery replacement and I can't quite decide which one I want to wear. The cost of replacing all of them is equivalent to 2 hours flying. I usually use my "crackberry" to check the time (which I look at frequently) and it has a counter too.... but it is yet another thing for me to drop and lose.

 

My grandather had a big watch he used to wear 24/7 that he used for his flying. As a child I never really questioned it's functions. I just knew he used it. As I got older I thought it was "old" technolgy so wasn't interested anyway. Now I'm wondering what my father needs it for...... Can anyone enlighten me?

 

Plastic covered maps also another really good idea. So do you laminate your maps each time they are re-issued or do CASA charge extra for the plastic covered ones? I could always use the kids left overs from covering school books.......

 

I have to say guys I have had some stirling advice from all of you and I am so looking forward to my next nav with my new found tips.

 

This is a great forum!!!

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Hi Flygirl,

 

Guys comment re plastic covered charts is a good one. I only ever cover my WAC as the others tend to get reissued fairly frequently anyway. To mark them up I then use a permanent marker. I then have some methylated spirits in a spray bottle that I squirt on and then use some paper towel to wipe off my nav scribbles.

 

Another note, don't be afraid to fold your maps into easily useable shapes and sizes. Remember, you will replace them at regular intervals so don't be afraid to trash them.

 

 

[blueshed]

Hi Kaz

 

You can purchse WAC's called sellosheen (that might be spelt with a C) either folded or flat, the others as airsick says, are renewed frequantly. Just do most of your scribling on the covered ones. Permanent marker sounds like a good idea, whilst in flight you could then use the chinagraph pencil so you can still write and rub!

 

Yes can see your aircraft!

 

110kts is just a tad slower than 120kts, which is equal to 2 miles per minute, if you have a 90kts machine you would be going at 1.5 miles per minute.

 

or @ 120kts it will take 10mins for 20miles, or 14mins/20miles for a 90kt cruise. If you interpolate you can figure out 110kts roughly. Lets say 11mins. So if you are thinking in 20mile sections you can calculate stuff in your head and leave the wizz wheel tucked away, or give it to your instructor to check up for you.

 

This is just a rule of thumb!

 

Hope I have not confused the situation!

 

Cheers Guy