A S I C Petition

[Guest DWB]

Not sure these things help but can't hurt the way I see it......

 

http://www.change.org/petitions/australian-federal-government-remove-asic-cards-entirely?share_id=vTEslILcVS&utm_campaign=signature_receipt&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition

 

 

[Robbo]

doesent work..........

 

 

[Guest aviatrix27]

yes it does Robbo, try again

 

 

[Robbo]

oops only copied part of it.

 

However, I am going to disagree here. Sorry I think ASIC's should remain to stay.

 

I am at different airports every day both within Australia and overseas. My card works and swipes at all airports within Australia with no restrictions. Although it does not work at overseas airports but I do have a separate card for numerous overseas airports that I need to access.

 

Even if the card does not work at one location, it only takes a few minutes to ask someone to let you through.

 

Sorry to be negative just my two cents, the more security the better.

 

 

[Guest DWB]

Hey that's fine Robbo. You are operating in a totally different arena to many of us who just want to buzz around the back blocks. We all would acknowledge the need of some form of security at major terminals & airfields.

 

 

[greybeard]

If you only have ASICs and subsequent security at major airfields how do you manage security when someone arrives at airside at a major airfield after flying in from an insecure minor airfield?

 

I'm not saying I like it, nor that it's particularly effective, but I don't think it's a simplistic as the petition implies.

 

 

[Robbo]

My two cents again, it needs to cover everyone not just commercial and major operations. Why should we have to go through major security checks just to land at major airfields when old John doh can use his light aircraft in a criminal way. The small aircraft can be used in a criminal way and nearly cause as much damage as a Boeing 747.

 

I know ASIC's can not be criminal free as there are a lot of people with "clean" records that are out to cause trouble, but at least its something, I personally don't think anything can be perfect but at least its bring the percentage down. The only way it can be at 0% is if we get all these "idiots" and "no hoper's" that want to cause trouble. Its not CASA you should be ****** with its those brainless thugs that want to use aircraft for there religious beliefs and drug cartels...

 

Although, I would make one suggestion to a negative nature, Maybe DOTARS should extend the ASIC's for three years and not two and reduce the cost. To get a police and federal check its only like $100 so there making $80 i understand it costs to process for staff wages but it takes a couple of minutes to send forms so maybe:

 

Criminal Check $100.00

 

Labor $20.00

 

Plastic Card $10.00

 

Postage $5.00

 

$135 every three years equities to $0.93 cents a week, small price to secure our lives and livelihoods

 

As it stands at the moment $187 for two years = $1.94 per week... this is nothing to me as per above its going to at least make it one more step these wankers have to get over.

 

If you work or have a hobby in aviation and can afford to fly a GA aircraft at $200+ per hour you can afford $1.94 a week, if you cant maybe you should think about another hobby/job

 

just my thoughts, I don't mean any offence to anyone and im not having a go at anyone, its my personnel thoughts and I know my response may start an argument, I don't mean to.

 

 

[skeptic36]

If the ASIC card was 90% effective I would support it, but really you don't have to be Einstein to dream up 100's of ways aviators could cause pandemonium without ever going near an ASIC inspector

 

 

[Robbo]

I sorter agree, but do you think anything will bring it down to 0% percentage or even 50%???

 

So what your saying is get rid of the asic cards and dont worry about security checks? Because that's what it sounds like as there is nothing out there that is going to bring it down to nothing. I think more could be done to improve the background checking on applicants but nothing is going to zero out the risk.

 

I would even be more happier if security checks were done at random. In my old Moorabin days (around 1999) we had 3 terrorist guys learning to fly. http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s435329.htm

 

 

[skeptic36]

No, do plenty of checks where people are likely to be entering the country and encourage people's vigilance and reporting of suspicious activity every where.

 

Don't throw money at an ineffective strategy thats only achievement is to cause inconvenience and burden the taxpayer.

 

All that is is a win to the terrorists

 

 

[Robbo]

encourage people's vigilance and reporting of suspicious activity every where

This is happening now....

 

And remember people can change there ways at an instant, people could come to Australia happy then you never know something could trigger to convert them to jihad happens every day.

 

One security check for the life time is not going to work... The checks need to be done and it costs money. Ok so lets just say we don't get issued an ASIC card the checks still have to be done and that's where the money is. So regardless of ASIC or not the checks MUST be done and regularly.

 

Also random checks need to be done and ASIC cards to be removed if not used in a period of time (reason i say that is i know someone who started learning to fly 5 years ago did 3 lessons gave it up and still holds an asic), therefore he can gain entry to any airport. This should not happen, it should be revoked.

 

 

[TAA Student Pilot]

Robbo, makes no sense having pilots checked and putting them through all the crap when you can still get on a Dash 8 without any form of check, metal detection or security. On the same airfield you can have a ten foot tall fence all the way round, pilot passes, coded access for airside, everyone running around with fancy passes round their necks and day-glow vests yet a passenger can board an aircraft the size of a Dash 8 with whatever they like in their pocket/carry on baggage or aircraft stowed baggage.

 

Consistent?

 

With the numbers working in major airports in everything from baggage handlers to shop attendants and security personnel there are all sorts ways to get around security. If you work daily with major airports Robbo you know how many breaches of security there are and how basic and simple those breaches are, they still keep happening.

 

As I've stated before, all pilots have an ASIO file anyway, you ARE monitored/checked without doing an ASIC. What level of security do all those 10's of thousands of airport employees have to go through?

 

ASIC's are just for the sake of it, to look like something is being done and we put up with the least resistance. Win/Win for those who want to look like they are doing something.

 

The terrorism bullsh!t thing is used by most as a diversion. As a comparison look how many people get killed on the roads every year but there's no priority to repair dodgy roads, make dual carriageway for major highways, put more freight onto trains is there?

 

How many people were killed with aircraft related terrorism in Australia in the last 12 months? How much was spent on flying security in the last 12 months? You could say it's because the security is successful, I say bullsh!t. Think of the lives that could have been saved if we spent that money on highways and traffic safety?

 

Another point is the mount of money made in security, there are a lot of people making big money from all sorts of contracts. That's another reason this terrorism/security drum is beaten so loudly and often.

 

 

[Robbo]

........... I will crawl back into my hole now

 

 

[Robbo]

hmmm I just noticed mine expires in September... Might have to send in the renewal paperwork at end of August!!

 

 

[sixtiesrelic]

Pay the money after answering all the silly questions and wait and wait and WAIT.

 

I'm with Student Pilot on this.

 

Government seen to be doing something, created mass employment and has a new industry to interfere with.

 

 

[Coop]

A couple years back I perused my log book and found that I had been through so-called security controlled airports 68 times in my travels around the country. Guess how many times I was asked to show my ASIC before entering the tarmac......

 

If you said "zero" go to the top of the class.....

 

How can an ASIC enhance security at all the minor airports I fly through? (I rarely take my Auster into major airports, -we did once fly into Rockhampton- no, I wasn't checked there either).

 

Answer- it can't, because checks are rare, if not totally non-existant.

 

I could probably make a black mark on the outside of a building with my Auster, but if I wanted to do some real damage in a suicidal way, I'd steal a fuel tanker and drive that into a building. Do they have security control devices on such trucks? Do their drivers have to do anti-terrorist security checks? I dunno, maybe they should if we are going to be consistent.

 

I'm with student pilot too- this is a waste of time and money and makes little contribution to security. It's all about window dressing. What has stopped the terrorists is the locked cockpit doors, the security at major airports and the tendency of passengers to beat to a pulp anyone who attempts to take action which could endanger an aircraft. From my experience, ASIC cards for private pilots have done nothing...

 

Coop

 

 

[Guest aviatrix27]

ah Coop, choir here, in total agreement!

 

 

[mnewbery]

Yeah but ... We both got ASIC checked at Toowoomba and told it was a relief vishus the attack hound went with the cheetah like he was some kind of self propelled luggage.

 

In that regard I got pinged for not wearing my ASIC on my forehead (sarcasm). It was blowing a gale, the luggage was trying to chew through its bindings and my hand. Having a stupid lanyard around my neck would have been miserable. So I stuck it in my wallet

 

So the very nice toowoomba regional council person in the ute expressed some more relief and wandered off to ping some punter in a C182 for run up checks on a taxi way.

 

One now wonders if the ASIC as a catch-all is something that the public use aerodromes can use to reduce their own diligence and expense?

 

For example: "oh you have an ASIC therefore I assume you have a right to be airside and know not to walk backwards onto an active runway without looking and won't give me more paperwork to do"

 

That assumption could be wrong.

 

There are parts of US of A where you need a pilot licence, federal ID, state ID and an ID for your local authority aerodrome just to get to your own plane. The user pays an annual (not three yearly) fee for each photo ID AND background check.

 

It could happen here. Once the councils and private airports realise they will have a nice little earn on their hands at the expense of an already captive audience, it will happen here.

 

Complain about the ASIC all you want. Don't complain if it leads to different required IDs at some of your favourite airports and even then nobody ever checks them because they can't afford a guy in a ute with a hi-vis vest and a clipboard.

 

 

[red750]

While you are probably right, mn, comparing the US to anywhere is a bit fruitless, After all, they are the only country where (almost) everyone walks around armed with a gun, and where you can be arrested and held in jail for stopping by a road to photograph a tourist attraction sign. They are something else again.

 

.

 

 

[Coop]

The only time I have had my ASIC checked was at Mildura (this was after the 68 other occasions where it wasn't) and I'd stuck it in my top pocket (still on its lanyard) in order to swing the prop (you don't want anything loose on your person when hand swinging- this is one of the golden rules). The person making the request was somewhat taken aback when I asked him to show me his authority to ask me to show mine :D. Anyway, he complied saying "fair enough" and we had a mutual viewing (his grey one was under his Hi-Vis vest) and went our separate ways. We both had smiles on our faces, I suspect he knew this was all a farce but that was what he was paid for, so he did it....

 

Maybe the Queenslanders are more paranoid- my ASIC wasn't checked at Emerald, but The Navigator, who needed to dispose of some water ballast in a hurry, had to go out of the secure area and was almost prevented from getting back by a somewhat officious little chap. She pointed out that the strong winds made it impossible for me to leave the Auster in order to accompany her and would he prefer that she drop her dacks and do it on the apron? (I reckon she would have too). He let her in.....

 

These are some of the practical situations that arise with light aircraft that the designers of this ridiculous scheme haven't considered. I'm sure you can all recall situations where such problems can arise. At least at Rockhampton the dunny was accessible from the tarmac and was located adjacent the fuel bowser. Smart idea!

 

Coop