How the left ruined air travel

[coljones]

Thanks FT, I have seen the figure 400,000 for a recent year but I can't find it again and so it may be unreliable. I could find " one million since 2010 " which comes to 200,000 a year on average , so a rate of 1000 a day would sometimes be met, but not for every day of the year.Funny how the figure is not so trumpeted that people me have to research it. You would think it would have been font-page stuff when we had a particularly big month of immigration. Compare this with how a plane accident makes the news, but what has the most impact on our lives?

So while I stand corrected, the argument still applies.. it is a great big number and those with real-estate interests are the winners. And there is subsequent pressure to convert airfields to housing.

Give Pauline Hansen a call - she will work up some figures for you.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Yep, Pauline made anti-immigration look bad. We now have the biggest immigration rate in the first world, and I reckon most people think its patriotic to have this. Advance Australia means more people dont it?

 

The resulting high rent and house prices sure make recreational aviation out of reach for young people. When I started gliding in 1969, my new house was $500 deposit and the mortgage was 11% of my take-home pay.

 

Now after 47 years of wonderful economic improvements, a house deposit is $100,000 and the mortgage is about 90% of a take-home ordinary wage. I could never start out now with aviation or house ownership.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

All those migrants bring a lot of capital that supports the property market and being educated don't require a 20 year development before they start paying tax. look how Japan's economy is taking a nose dive due to a falling population, capitalism only works with unlimited growth.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I see in the news today a double dose of irony... Phillip Ruddock appointed as Special Envoy for Human Rights, and Greg Hunt wins "Best Minister in the World" award.

 

This is like appointing Fred Nile to chair the organising committee for the Mardi Gras and giving the Miss Universe award to Jeff Kennett.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

FT, I suspect you value your property investments more than the kid's ability to go flying.

 

Yep, our generation has done good huh. But at the expense of the younger generation.

 

If you look up on prosperity and population growth, you will not find the correlation you think is there.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I'm not the problem

 

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

I'm with Bruce on this. Thinking about living in high density housing gives me the same feeling as sticking two fingers down my throat.

 

The immigration rate doesn't matter. Total population and its increase does. A while ago I looked up the population figures for Australia in 1983 and 2013. About 51% increase. That's why, amongst other things, the roads seem more crowded. They are. Also helped by idiot speed limits (South Australia a prime example) which cause the same number of cars to be on the road longer when going anywhere.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Also helped by idiot speed limits (South Australia a prime example) which cause the same number of cars to be on the road longer when going anywhere.

I often wondered why large sections of freeway (eg the Western Ring Rd in Melb) would have 80kph limits, just seemed stupid.

 

However I heard an interview with someone who worked in traffic management and they said the movement on these roads is closely monitored - number of cars coming on at each entry point, etc - traffic lights automated to let the right number on at a time, and the limits constantly changed to maximise the flow of traffic and minimise the travel time. So if your limit is 80 but you're travelling smoothly with no stop/start, you'll be there quicker than if the limit was 110 and the road is blocking up at points.

 

In any case, it's obvious that it's unsustainable to keep building massive freeways for ever-increasing population, just won't work. We need to be investing in light rail, dedicated bus lanes, bike paths, park & ride facilities etc.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

I was referring to the 50kph limit everywhere inside Adelaide including on main feeder roads. I was also in Port Pirie recently on the way back from another transcontinental to Perth and back in the BD-4 and everywhere in town the limit is 50 kph. The town is large, uncrowded and has wide streets. It is called taxation by stealth.

 

You also said "

 

In any case, it's obvious that it's unsustainable to keep building massive freeways for ever-increasing population, just won't work. We need to be investing in light rail, dedicated bus lanes, bike paths, park & ride facilities etc."

 

Only if you swallowed the green kool aid. It isn't obvious to me. For an increasing population you'll need to build more and more " light rail, dedicated bus lanes, bike paths, park & ride facilities etc.". I'd rather more freeways. Public transport is like having 20 random hitchhikers in your car. It is for poor countries and societies which cannot afford widespread private transport. Hint: that is why cars are so popular.

 

With high speed communications via fiber and the coming self driving cars I can see other solutions to this transport problem in the near to middle future. It makes no sense to travel into an office to spend your day in front of a keyboard and screen.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

If you increase the speed limit you have to increase the distance between vehicles, you run out of road pretty quick.

 

 

[facthunter]

Freeways were built with the selling point of higher speeds. If they get congested they are no longer doing the job properly and the price charged should be reduced when that happens. There's still just ONE person in most vehicles, so we aren't serious about transport costs. Cost of the cars with all associated costs and the cement we cover the countryside with and lost time and parking difficulties etc make car driving in the city a no fun at all thing, and EXPENSIVE. Train travel is pretty boring but low stress level and you get a bit more exercise if you want it by getting off a station earlier etc. Worse thing is people with all kind of diseases cough all over you. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Maybe there's a market for individualised compartments within train carriages. Lightweight clear plexiglass dividers moulded to form a kind of seat on one side and a stand for laptop/tablet on the other. Folks could work in privacy on the way to work.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Why don't we go the whole hog and be hermetically sealed off from all other living things, humans included.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Why don't we go the whole hog and be hermetically sealed off from all other living things, humans included.

Have you been in public transport recently? People already seal themselves off by plugging into headphones and staring at a screen. At least if there was an option to travel in privacy and maybe get some work done, the ones who currently drive in and clog up those freeways may consider using public transport.

 

 

[facthunter]

Aust. population passed 24 Million . Doubled since 1958. Mostly immigration. We make very little in this country now. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Aust. population passed 24 Million . Doubled since 1958. Mostly immigration. We make very little in this country now. Nev

Agreed. A big part of our industrial capacity was always engaged in building accomodation for that increasing population. Tariffs protected local manufacturers of building materials, fittings, etc, but now even that sector is being hammered by cheap imports- and not all them of good quality.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Have you been in public transport recently? People already seal themselves off by plugging into headphones and staring at a screen. At least if there was an option to travel in privacy and maybe get some work done, the ones who currently drive in and clog up those freeways may consider using public transport.

That's true, but sad that we can't all share a good quality public transport system. The last thing we need is our cities choked by concrete overpasses and intechanges.

 

 

[storchy neil]

sorry nev cant beat me at making trouble I is no 1 at it neil

[Kiwi303]

Australia just wants to build everything defence related in Australia...

 

Buy one sub overseas with future foremen watching the pros and build the rest in-country.

 

Which means the first sub was fine, but the crazy aussie electrical monkeys wound the coils wrong for the rest of the engines and shorted things...

 

Then there was the ANZAC frigate debacle... Building the infrastructure and training the welders and other things to build them in yards that were used to building small fishing boats meant they came in almost 3 times the cost of buying them straight off the already smoothly running and integrated slips from Blohm and Voss in Germany.

 

The 105mm Hamel guns... 8 times more expensive delivered than buying direct from the armoury churning them out for the British Army...

 

There is a point that you should say They make them and know what they are doing... Let them do their job" and shoot any Job-Creating pollie or union leader who wants to burn taxpayers money on wasteful duplication of resources which will just languish again after the project is finished.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

defense is a joke, we have 3 weeks of fuel reserves and then when they run out, our economy collapses.

 

 

[facthunter]

And we starve as the food travels an average of 1500 kms to user. Australia the Clever???? Country Nev

 

 

[DenisPC9]

the "my house on a quarter acre block" culture which arose at the beginning of the Baby Boom era.

I think you'll find the Governor Phillip, First Fleet and all that, mandated the 1/4 acre.  This so everyone could grow their own vegetables and have some chooks.

 

Wealthier people took it a couple of steps further so they could have an orchard and a cow.

 

The poor retaliated by raising goats, which they let run free around town.

 

And so on.

 

 

[coljones]

Australia just wants to build everything defence related in Australia...Buy one sub overseas with future foremen watching the pros and build the rest in-country.

 

Which means the first sub was fine, but the crazy aussie electrical monkeys wound the coils wrong for the rest of the engines and shorted things...

 

Then there was the ANZAC frigate debacle... Building the infrastructure and training the welders and other things to build them in yards that were used to building small fishing boats meant they came in almost 3 times the cost of buying them straight off the already smoothly running and integrated slips from Blohm and Voss in Germany.

 

The 105mm Hamel guns... 8 times more expensive delivered than buying direct from the armoury churning them out for the British Army...

 

There is a point that you should say They make them and know what they are doing... Let them do their job" and shoot any Job-Creating pollie or union leader who wants to burn taxpayers money on wasteful duplication of resources which will just languish again after the project is finished.

Australia was unable to use the Mirage in Vietnam because of French interference.  There might be financial and engineering penalties in establishing an Australian defence industry but Australia is a long way from anywhere else and well provisioned defence forces and diplomacy are essential.  Killing off defence industries or giving them boom to bust conditions, like they currently go through, is pretty stupid.

 

 

[Downunder]

There is a point that you should say They make them and know what they are doing... Let them do their job" and shoot any Job-Creating pollie or union leader who wants to burn taxpayers money on wasteful duplication of resources which will just languish again after the project is finished.

And with the money saved, spent on REAL nation building infrastructure. 

The problem with military equipment is that in 15 or 20 years it is redundant or need expensive upgrades.

 

A bridge can last 100 yrs....

 

I'm no saying buy the cheapest and nastiest but there needs to be some common sense....

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

The 1/4 acre was so you could have a drop-dunny in the back yard and not stink out the next door neighbors  by too much.

 

That's why they can sell much smaller blocks these days with sewage in place.