How to land a 737, like if the pilots cark it

[Gnarly Gnu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqcXstB7UJ0

 

No biggie.... apparently.

 

 

[rgmwa]

OK, I wrote all that down. Can't wait to get my beer and meet the press gallery now.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Yeah right. i got to fly a proper 737-800 simulator when in NZ. All the auto stuff is fine and easy...flying the plane by hand is NOT. They do not fly like the aircraft we fly. Trying to fine adjust a 40 Tonne aircraft how we fly will not work. The aircraft has too much mass and enertia...you have to use small "waggles" to fly these things. I tried to fly it like a normal GA or RAA aircraft...crashed it pretty well off the side of the runway. The second attempt was a bit better then the instructor told me about the small waggles thing and after about 10 mins of using and practicing this I managed to land it on the runway centreline but it was an arrival no where near a perfect landing.

 

 

[facthunter]

You are still flying a simulator, The aeroplane is easier and if there is enough rough air around you won't fly it with small waggles. The way the controls are powered makes a lot of difference in feel. You still have to fly any of them. They won't get exactly where you want them at the right speed, (and I mean the RIGHT speed not somewhere near it) without YOU putting it there. It won't get there by itself. Nev

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I wasnt talking about the speed control or flaps or any of that. The speed and altitude controls the plane can do that with your controls. I am talking about the way the aircraft feels through the controls. You initiate a turn using the yoke and the aircraft starts to roll and you bring the yoke back to the centre and the plane keeps going it sort of overshoots so then you try to bring it back and it overshoots the other way then. It was real offputting. But once I did the waggle technicque then it seemed to work much better. say I wanted to turn 5 deg then once the aircraft started to turn about the 2 deg mark you return the yoke to the centre the delay in the aircraft to stop the roll it maybe about 3 deg so you do that little pump again and by the time it comes back it again you would be pretty close to where you wanted to go. Maybe the sim is not the same but I would have thought it would have been quite close to how the aircraft actually handled.

 

 

 

[facthunter]

You are just overcontrolling. Having a hangover helps to do that (so I'm informed) The technique you were advised to do works in the simulator. Heavy aircraft controls have artificial feel and a good simulator is just that, but not the real thing. People who fly them a lot get to do it without any excess input which is the way to do it. If you input excessively and then have to correct for it you are making the job hard.. There is no seat of the pants feel.Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

I watched your sim all through . If you haven't done it before you did OK. Nev

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

That was the first time...and the only time I have been in a simulator. I hadnt done any flying though for a few years before then. But all my flying previously was about 80 hrs in gliders and 40 plus hours in GA and a few hours in RAA at that time. Not long after that sim experience I started doing RAA training and ordered my Savannah kit.

 

 

[facthunter]

Good effort then. They aren't cheap to run. If the pilot's cark it, you will need someone on the radio to talk you through. You won't know all the flap and target speeds and how to arm the spoilers and autobrake etc but you should get it on the ground. Nev

 

 

[Guernsey]

I would easily get it on the ground!!! Not sure if it would be in one piece though

 

Alan.

 

 

[pylon500]

"We're all gonna die!!"

 

But seriously, any Joe Bloggs off the street having watched that video, is going to be hard pressed to get the aircraft on the ground anywhere near the strip, let alone smoothly.

 

Some of us experienced ultralight pilots (1000+ hours) are still going to be working hard to have a flyable aircraft after the landing......

 

 

[Birdseye]

Correct autopilot inputs, a stabilized couple ILS approach and autoland go a long way to making it feasible. As to hand flying, then forget it. I tried hand flying an early JT8D -200 version in the cruise at FL350. It was horrible and felt so out of balance. The skipper gave it a try and agreed, promptly re-engaging he autopilot.

 

 

[Robbo]

I would hate to see you in the one at work, you crashed on the landing and the sim reset it self, do it with the work ones and it will throw you through the screens if your not wearing a seat belt.

 

Not picking on you just cant word it so it sounds different

 

 

[facthunter]

You need to be strapped in when in a simulator. If things go wrong you can be belted about. Nev

 

 

[Robbo]

You need to be strapped in when in a simulator. If things go wrong you can be belted about. Nev

Yep, amazing how much force those things have !!

I new someone that got "air" sick in one, well maybe we were throwing it about in a huge storm

 

The simulator also have another talent, DANCING !!

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The sim I tried didnt have all the rams on it. Beggars cant be choosers you know. It was a privately owned one that put pilots through I think in doing the many hours required to practise first before they go to the main airlines versions. I would image the "full" sims the airlines use would cost a fortune to operate at a few million dollars each. In every other way though it was fully functional. That was about 6 or 7 years ago I did that in Tauranga in NZ

 

 

[Robbo]

The sim I tried didnt have all the rams on it. Beggars cant be choosers you know. It was a privately owned one that put pilots through I think in doing the many hours required to practise first before they go to the main airlines versions. I would image the "full" sims the airlines use would cost a fortune to operate at a few million dollars each. In every other way though it was fully functional. That was about 6 or 7 years ago I did that in Tauranga in NZ

If you are ever in Melbourne Kyle let me know and I might be able to get you a look in, also the ansett sim center have a good package for the civilians at http://www.ansettsimulators.com/corporate/simulator-experience

Also there is the 737 sims in the shopping centers but they don't have the rams.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

I had an hour in that sim at Tauranga about 10 years ago. It is loggable time. I had a young blonde female aero club instructor of 21 as the instructor.

 

I had no trouble taking it off and landing it 4 times. Wouldn't even have stressed the aircraft and stopped on the runway each time. Hours help I guess as I had 2700 in gliders and about 600 power GA plus about 17 hours in MB326H in 1972 to 1975.

 

The ailerons have a centering spring with a reasonably high breakout force so gentle pressure doesn't move them. Maybe the elevator and rudder too, I can't remember. I'm told by a friend who flys them for a living that this is like the real aircraft.

 

Sad thing was that the instructor was dead 6 months later. On a cross country with a student in a Cessna 150 they failed to outclimb terrain. Student survived, instructor died.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Taking off and flying was the easy part...getting it back on the ground in one piece on that strip of bitumin was the bit that needs lots of practice . Just flying it around it easy but putting it on the spot was the issue I had...but then again 80 hrs in gliders and 40 odd hrs in a C172 and about 5 years since I had flown any of them made it a bit more difficult back then. I think I had 30 mins or an hour I cant remember but it was enough time for just 3 attempts at landing. I was told though at the time the way it handled was very indicative of how the real aircraft flew including the required force on the controls. I know I went away wanting to do it all again

 

 

[Robbo]

Speaking of sims, they make these just down the road from Melbourne airport.

 

 

 

[Captaincoop]

The high breakout force and centering of the ailerons sounds like you were in CWS (control wheel steering) which is a semi manual (or semi autopilot mode)

 

I have flown the fixed based sims the tourists can have a go in. Couldn't fly it on one engine even with full rudder!

 

Have flown the proper airline sims and fly the real aircraft for a living and I can tell you that if you fly the sim on autopilot its is the same. That is where the similarity ends. Flying the real aircraft is nothing like the sim. In fact before my six monthly sim check I fly though the autopilot in the aircraft to practice for the sim, not the other way around.

 

 

[Kiwi303]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/aircraft/other/auction-1033855814.htm

[facthunter]

That has no motion and only suitable for limited training (procedures and orientation.) Nev

 

 

[Captaincoop]

Yes Nev is right. Good for famil and multi crew training.

 

 

[dutchroll]

I love these "How to land a passenger jet if the pilots die" videos.

 

The average non-pilot person watching this video would be lucky to retain 1% of the information in it, and almost guaranteed to recall none of it at all in the stress of a "omg the pilots have died can anybody land a plane?" moment.

 

The problem even with flying these things on autopilot is that to get it on final approach to the runway in the landing configuration, a bunch of things have to be done in the right order. Miss a step, hit the button next to the actual one you want, dial the wrong setting into an autopilot mode, and you can get yourself in all sorts of trouble.

 

This happens in real life (more often than you might think) to pilots with thousands of hours on type. It's just that it only lasts a couple of seconds before you realise and correct it, or your colleague points it out. No such luck for Joe Average who has little or no flying experience and is there by himself!

 

Even the very interesting video of the B737 instructor talking a girl through landing the simulator shows how much taking and explaining needs to be done, under controlled conditions where she has no fear of consequences. Now throw in a petrified passenger trying to fly it under remote instruction, some turbulence, some calls from the cabin, some missed radio transmissions. Then see what happens!