Jabiru 2200 powered Drifter

[Guest sceadu52jr]

I see Jabiru have an install package for mounting a 2200 Jab to a Drifter. Have any forum members done this or know of and drifters fitted out with a 2200?

 

It would seem like a good combination to me, what do you think?

 

Wayne

 

 

[drifter_driver]

jab powered drifter

 

there is a jab powered drifter based at somersby airfield near gosford. owner steve sounded very pleased with it and mentioned he logged more than 6000 hours (now thats what you call drifter flying) on it trouble free. I saw him do a few circuits and it sounded really nice with good climb rate. according to steve his is the only jab powered drifter in australia.

 

cheers

 

 

[Guest sceadu52jr]

6000 hrs...thats a lot of hours! Sound as good as I imagined it might be, I am really surprised that there are not more of these jab conversions happening to drifters. Would this be because most Drifters would be factory certified models, or just the cost factor.

 

Drifter Aircraft could be on a winner here..if they were able to offer a Certified Drifter with a 4-stroke motor.

 

Wayne

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

A few years ago Jabiru got a rush of blood to the head and set out on a project to get their engines legally certified in as many types as possible. I imagine the Drifter would have been high on their priority list as there is so many about.

 

I offered them a Thruster T300 to put a 2200 in, would buy the engine and do the test flying myself at no charge. They said yes but a bit later went cold on the idea.

 

That was a pity because the J2200 goes well in the T600 and Vision 600s and would have been a winner.

 

If they did do the Drifter conversion then the engine installation would be certified under a CAR35 Engineering Order. Chris Keihn would be able to tell you what RAAus have on the subject in their aircraft master files.

 

Aye

 

Tony

 

 

[Guest sceadu52jr]

CAR35

 

Hi Tony,

 

So a certified aircraft such as the Drifter can be fitted a different motor, in this case the Jab 2200 if that installation is certified under CAR35? That aircraft is then legal and can still be used for training?

 

I have seen a Vision with a Jab motor fitted, while this is a Drifter post, what is the history of the Vision & the Jab motor?

 

Thanks

 

Wayne

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Hi Wayne,

 

 

Yes that is quite correct. The aircraft will be fully legal and can be used for training once it is under an approved CAR35 Engineering Order.

 

 

There is a wrinkle though. Just because this has been done once does not mean that anyone can just charge out and copy it. Any conversion installation has to be done under the E.O. and appropriately signed off in the aircraft’s documentation. Normally a serial number is given for individual conversions and this is stamped into the components and recorded in the aircraft log book so the work can be tracked later by inspection – eg on resale of the machine. The registration data then has to be changed and the conversion recorded on the aircraft’s master file at RAAus – and I assure you that Chris will check carefully that everything has been done correctly!

 

 

The purpose of this is not just blind red tape and administrative castle building! There are two main reasons:

 

 

• Sheer money! Some of these Engineering Orders are damn expensive! While an engine conversion for the J2200 is not extreme in itself as you can buy factory engine mounts for them (although this may require some ‘tweaking’ and additions) and the test flying is not too complicated, there are things like noise testing and that involves expensive gear and expensive people to do the recording and measuring.
   
  

 

 

Having spent all that the happy new owner may not be disposed to just donate the work and wants some return on it which can be done by a fee for using the E.O. That is reasonable enough! Even something quite simple can take hours of work to knock into acceptable shape even at just the design stage.

 

 

• Quality Control. This is far more important! The CAR35 engineer has to stand behind the integrity of the design. While the engineer will build-in a component for his liability insurance he will not want to be sued because of a failure caused by a poor fabricator who actually made the parts (even if they are the right size etc).
   
  

 

 

TOSG has a number of E.O.s in place already for Thrusters, with a dozen or more being currently worked on, and controls them very tightly indeed. The E.O.s themselves are restricted to single fabricators that have been hand-picked for quality of work and standing in the industry – and will also stand behind their own work. This is specified in the E.O. and the component is not legal if it does not comply exactly with the E.O. This adds to the expense a little more but we have had NO complaints from customers on the components.

 

 

Your questions about the ‘600/J2200 conversions. This is relatively straight forward. As we are all aware the steady move of Rec Aviation into the low end of GA brought with it increasing market demand for four stroke motors.

 

 

The T600 was designed and developed in UK and the Poms went for the J2200 engine that is not much heavier than a Rotax R582 and develops slightly more power.

 

 

In turn Vision Aircraft began license building the T600 as the Vision 600 in Australia and had ready access to the UK factory manufactured engine mounts and all the rest of it – so that was an easy exercise for them.

 

 

However, they complicated it by trying the HKS engine first but it turned out to be a dog in a Thruster and the R582 ran rings around it, so they reverted to the J2200. So much so that I had to nearly beg Wade to leave the R582 as an option to broaden his market appeal for the type.

 

 

One appeal of the J2200 (among many now they have really sorted the thing out) is that it is a very good looking engine in an open application such as Drifters and Thrusters.

 

 

Trust that answers your queries.

 

 

Aye

 

 

Tony

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

Hi All,

 

I realise this is a little off the subject I guess, but the Rotax 912 (80HP) fitted to Wayne Fisher's Super Drifter is superb in terms of rate of climb (1500 fpm), smoothness, realibility, economy (9.5 lph @ 63 kt cruise) and generally delightful flying....however, the aircraft is not certified.

 

The fuselage is about 12 ins longer which allows stacks of seat options for tall pilots.....to modify a certified Drifter is possible but costly,not to mention legalities.

 

Submitted for info.

 

Cheers

 

JL

 

 

[bilby54]

Ausflight were building a strut braced Drifter with a J2200 engine before they closed down. The aircraft was GA registered with electric flaps and the setup looked very neat. I didn't know what happened to it after the factory closed so maybe that is the one that is now based at Somersby. A few photo's would be great

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest sceadu52jr]

Thanks Tony,

 

You explained it all very well, I always enjoy reading your posts.

 

JL, thanks for your input and info on 912 powered Fisher range, it sounds like a great aircraft to fly. I was aware of this aircraft but was not aware of the J2200 conversion until recently though.

 

I would have thought the price of the certified mount would not be to prohibitive otherwise why would they bother if nobody wanted to buy it? Also, the finished product is certified and can be used for training to offset some of the ownership costs?

 

Bilby54, Interesting info on the Austflight J2200! I wonder how much of this engineering went over to the new Drifter Aircraft company and if they intend to do any such development in this area.

 

Wayne

 

 

[bilby54]

Hi Wayne,

 

A little while back, I was talking to a person that was involved with the new Drifter factory and he said that a J2200 powered Drifter was probably going to be the preferred option. Jabiru offer an engine conversion for Drifters and it does not change the empty weight or C of G if replacing a R582.

 

The big problem occurs if you still want to use the aircraft for commercial purposes and it is not legal on an Ausflight Drifter without a CAR 35 EO. Damn shame really. I had heard of a conversion on a Drifter "down South somewhere" and it suffered from overheating on the ground, maybe someone could shed some light on it.

 

Cheers

 

Bill

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

Hi Wayne,

 

I believe the 912 Drifter conversion involves considerably more than just re-arranging the engine mounts.....the fuselage lengthening necessitates mods to controls, seating and a stack of other issues relating to weight that is complicated by the heavier engine.

 

The problems associated with a new certification are well known to those who have been down this path, and I suspect the cost benefit would not warrant the exercise for the Drifter.....Regrettably.....such is the evolution of recreational flying.

 

Cheers

 

JL

 

 

[drifterdriver]

I spoke to the Drifter Factory 18 months or so ago when I was out that way and they had registered a new certified Drifter which was displayed in last years RAAus calendar but I think it was only 582 powered. They were talking about Jab and 912 options with the 2200 being the easiest to undertake due to CG problems. Many years ago we had Bill Whitney certify a number of mods to Drifters including an installation for a czech engine called a Werner and even back then the cost would have been prohibitive had we not had 7 Drifters online. I think that it would be great, mainly due to noise abatement, to have a four stroke option for training purposes although personally I would keep the 582 over swapping to a Jab.

 

Nick

 

PS drifter driver is that Peter's old Drifter from Kooralbyn?

 

 

[drifter_driver]

drifter 25-190

 

it sure is nick. I bought it from Jay Ryder (boonah airfield) about five years ago, who I believe bought it from peter reed. few of the issues it had when I bought it were ironed out e.g. left wing dropping, fitting new trim system, changing pitch blocks for correct RPM, aerial pursuits intercom and antenna, new flying wires and seats, fuel pumps etc. It has'nt missed a beat in last five years and has given me a lot of joy during this time.

 

its an old donkey (flogged hard by countless students and pilots in the past) but still does the job (smashing bugs -that is:big_grin:)

 

 

[bilby54]

The last time that I strolled past the Avgas bowser, it was advertising its product for $1.76 per litre of fun juice. The people in dark suits are warning us that unleaded will be around $3.00 per litre within two years so maybe the Jabiru engine will prevail under those conditions and two strokes will fade into aviation history.

 

The Rotax 582 burns around 15 litres per hour and has a TBO for training purposes of 300 hours. The fuel burn does not include two stroke oil at around $20 per litre and the enormous escalation in the cost of parts in the last few years.

 

The Jabiru 2200 burns around 10 - 12 litres per hour in this situation and has a TBO of 2000 hours for a major rebuild. You can bet your pay cheque that Jabiru will be looking at the problems associated with Ethanol (as that is where they came from) and getting an engine system to operate safely at a cost that we can all afford.

 

Maybe Jabiru engines are the way of the future for our recreational activities.