Bloody Jetstar

[Admin]

What I would like to know is how would they know that they have to cancel a flight at 8am because of weather when the flight is scheduled to depart over 9hrs later. We all know that anything can happen with weather over a 9hr period.

 

Dear MR Ian Baker,

 

Due to weather in Sydney your flight JQ517 20/07/2018 from Sydney to Melbourne has been cancelled.

 

We apologise for the unexpected change to your travel plans. For help with your booking, or to check available alternate flights, choose an option below....

 

Anyway at the airport now having my usual ritual of a Strongbow cider watching the planes and the weather is beautiful and only a slight wind. Departure board says my flight is on time...at the moment

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

.............. BUT, that would n't benefit you Old K - the airline will surely make a dollar out of it ....... the seat size would remain the same.......... how does someone else's penalty satisfy a fellow traveller

 

Maybe an airline has an obligation to provide 6 bigger seats per flight - for the portly flyers

Good point, JM. Having suffered a lifetime of discrimination against tall people (paying mobs more to get clothes that almost fit) I have some empathy for the oversized. In an ideal world the seats would adapt to our size, making all of us happier.

 

 

[Birdseye]

What I would like to know is how would they know that they have to cancel a flight at 8am because of weather when the flight is scheduled to depart over 9hrs later. We all know that anything can happen with weather over a 9hr period.Dear MR Ian Baker,

 

Due to weather in Sydney your flight JQ517 20/07/2018 from Sydney to Melbourne has been cancelled.

 

We apologise for the unexpected change to your travel plans. For help with your booking, or to check available alternate flights, choose an option below....

 

Anyway at the airport now having my usual ritual of a Strongbow cider watching the planes and the weather is beautiful and only a slight wind. Departure board says my flight is on time...at the moment

Along with that list of standard lies, such as "the cheque's in the post", include any excuse that an airline gives you for delays and cancellations. They will do their damnedest not to tell you that they have screwed up. I'm still waiting though for a "Blame Jesus" excuse.........

 

 

[old man emu]

What's the crosswind component on Rwy 25 when the wind is 270 @25 kts gusting to 34kts? Could that be the type of weather that causes flight cancellations?

 

 

[facthunter]

Put it another way. If the ATIS gave a condition that would put the X-wind value above the figure cited as the maximum for type, why would you jeopardise your career and safety by taking off? In the POH it will address things like wet runways/gusts being a consideration in a decision.

 

IF conditions at a destination are forecast" to be over X wind limits an alternate must be planned for . The POH is a legal document specifying required actions. Nev.

 

 

[yampy]

What's the crosswind component on Rwy 25 when the wind is 270 @25 kts gusting to 34kts? Could that be the type of weather that causes flight cancellations?

That would equate to a max X wind of only 10 kts .

 

Dave C

 

 

[facthunter]

Think you better do your sums again. There's only 20 degrees difference between the wind and the runway alignment.. Nev

 

 

[cherk]

What's the crosswind component on Rwy 25 when the wind is 270 @25 kts gusting to 34kts? Could that be the type of weather that causes flight cancellations?

Wind at 270 / 35Kts on 25 = Headwind of 33Kt and 12Kt X-wind from the right.

 

at 270 / 25Kts on 25 = headwind of 23 Kts and 9 Kt X-wind ( still from the right )

 

 

[cherk]

Think you better do your sums again. There's only 29 degrees difference between the wind and the runway alignment. Nev

???29 degrees ??

 

 

[facthunter]

Sorry that's a typo. Now corrected to 20. The point is there's not a lot of X wind .Nev

 

 

[yampy]

As I said , 10Kts X wind , that’s pretty much between the 9-12kts calculated .

 

 

[facthunter]

Indeed it is, and I humbly apologise about the "need to do the sums again" reference. I can't delete it now unfortunately... The point you made is the same as I was trying to make. The x wind component isn't that large. With high lift-off speeds larger planes have less difficulty with a given crosswind than a slower plane would as the drift angle is much less which is a sort of index of the plane's ability to cope.. Same as most pilots use on smaller planes when they make an approach in x-wind conditions. Most jets would handle 35 knots x wind. Gusts may complicate it and as said water on the runway is a consideration and landing distance with aquaplaning possible affecting directional control and braking. Nev

 

 

[Hwansey]

Perhaps this might explain some of the mystery of weather delays for Sydney when the wind is blowing from the West and the sky is clear:

 

The use of Runway 25 significantly reduces Sydney airport capacity. The airport, in this configuration, has only one runway operational - not the usual parallel runway ops on 16LR and 34LR.

 

Because of the layout of the airport, processing RWY 25 ops are further hampered by the fact that the terminals are to the North of the runway and traffic vacating to the left must now cross the active runway to access them.

 

Traffic vacating 25 to the right have a parallel taxiway system, but the taxiway area serves the international Southern and, sometimes, Eastern aprons. Any stuff up or delay in taxi by an outbound will further hamper taxiway flows.

 

Melbourne has an entirely different system. Both runways are often used at once. Generally 27 for departures and 16 for arrivals given Melbourne prevailing wind flows. The outlay of the airport taxiway and terminal systems make this system work well. Melbourne delays occur when the sun is shining and the wind is howling from the North. One runway again (34), but the access to the terminals is better than Sydney hence the lesser impact on traffic flows.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[yampy]

Indeed it is, and I humbly apologise about the "need to do the sums again" reference. I can't delete it now unfortunately... The point you made is the same as I was trying to make. The x wind component isn't that large. With high lift-off speeds larger planes have less difficulty with a given crosswind than a slower plane would as the drift angle is much less which is a sort of index of the plane's ability to cope.. Same as most pilots use on smaller planes when they make an approach in x-wind conditions. Most jets would handle 35 knots x wind. Gusts may complicate it and as said water on the runway is a consideration and landing distance with aquaplaning possible affecting directional control and braking. Nev

No need for apologies Nev , no offence taken , and indeed we were making the same point .

 

Dave C

 

 

[facthunter]

I've been rushing things lately. I try to spell check but should re read more closely.. . Nev

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Well I’ve joined the ranks of Jetstar haters.

 

Had a flight booked ( since October last year) for 6pm cairns to Sydney today to fly out overseas tomorrow.

 

Got an sms at about 1 pm. Your flight is cancelled due to staffing requirements.

 

And a smug sounding email basically saying they have alternate flights - till you follow the links to find all the flights are for the next day and all arrive Sydney after my connecting flight has left.

 

A hurried and stressed time on the internet (and assuming there will be a full plane of people doing exactly the same as me) I got Virgin flights at about same time as the cancelled Jetstar - but at cost three times the Jetstar ones. ($1500 for two adults one way economy).

 

 

[fly_tornado]

unfortunately, there is no political will to introduce any sort of consumer protection over the enforcement of flight schedules. Its just how things are in Australia.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It's all a matter of how you are looking at the service.

 

Qantas, and to some degree Virgin are the business airlines, with spare aircraft and spare crew to cater for mechanical/out-of-time issues, to get you to your destination at a fixed time. With TAA and Ansett we were used to booking a flight, and if the traffic was heavy, missing it and getting on the next flight, or when Friday nights out of Brisbane where fully booked, finding an extra aircraft had been put on the get you home.

 

Cut price airlines are geared to the family holiday market, where you don't have to be somewhere at a certain time or on a certain day.

 

There are no spare aircraft, there are no spare crews, there is no waiting for latecomers to board, and these days you check yourself and carry on baggage in most of the time; this provides huge fare savings, and this in turn has led to the four kilometers or so Long Term Car Parks in some capital cities, with full size buses carrying you to the nearest terminal. It has allowed hundreds of thousands of new customers to fly at about a quarter, or less than the old TAA?Qantas/Ansett rates of 40 years ago. Just imagine what those fares would be today if the same policy applied.

 

The business model is the Wal Mart model. Wal Mart make 3 cents profit on a $5.99 product, but due to the volume they sell, that makes them $1 million net profit per year on that product.

 

The cut price airlines will often advertise fares designed to fill less popular times/routes. Just recently you could get to Japan, round trip for around $200.00, and I've seen Melbourne - Cairns offers at $39.00.

 

For Jetstar you need to be at the airport two or three hours before the flight, yet be prepared to go home and start the next day, and there's no guaranteed arrival time; but if you're on holiday, who cares; a whole new generation of low to medium income families are flying interstate and overseas.

 

If you want to fly on a business basis, Qantas is the way to go.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I wouldn't book jetstar for a holiday, being stuck in an airport is not a fun way to spend your holidays

 

 

[turboplanner]

I wouldn't book jetstar for a holiday, being stuck in an airport is not a fun way to spend your holidays

Jetstar and the other cut - cost airlines were never set up for the rich, famous, and busy like you.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I don't fly often enough to need to cut corners, I just want to get to where I am going with the least amount of stress.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

That is set to become harder:

 

Airline passengers face a 'perfect storm' as global pilot shortage starts to bite

 

 

[fly_tornado]

there is no pilot shortage, the airlines in the US are still paying only paying $24k a year for first timers, they are pushing for single pilot cockpits.

 

 

[mnewbery]

I was just about to post the same link.

 

"Dear Jet-Starfish passengers we regret to advise you the 17:10 scheduled flight to WoopWoop has been cancelled. Crew scheduling couldn't find anyone not already flying, not fatigued and not wealthy enough that they couldn't refuse ... to pilot your scheduled service".

 

So much easier to not blame the strategic "thinkers"

 

 

[mnewbery]

Any BS comparisons between US and AU carriers or BS pushes for single pilot operations are just that - BS.

 

AU legislation operates in isolation to US legislation and Australia does not have any US carriers operating domestically.

 

It takes several years to go from zero to the right seat of a single aisle jet so if a carrier is going to die from a lack of (low wage young naive unmarried starry eyed) pilots, the dice have probably already been rolled.

 

Paying sign on bonuses to get REX captains into VA or JQ operations is a symptom not s soluiton.

 

When VA offer head hunting bonuses to anyone who can get a Qantas Link pilot to make the switch to VA ... and the Qantas Link pilots still aren't making the switch (this is rumor not a verifiable fact) you know its not all about money