Crank angle sensor dramas or is it?

[Knighty]

Hi Guys

 

The wifes V6 Mitsubishi triton(G672 engine) is on the bloody blink again, I am going to bash it if it keeps on playing up like this. Yes I know its got nothing to do with planes however all the time I am fixing it I am taken away from my aviation so it sort of fits the criteria:laugh:.

 

1: replaced crank angle sensor and computer control unit 4 years ago.

 

2: replaced crank angle sensor shortly after the warranty run out following year.

 

3: replaced another crank angle sensor January 07 after the warranty run out on the last one, mind you these were expensive units and not cheap aftermarket crap according to my auto electrician whom I trust.

 

4: Triton has been towed to the auto electrician again however it was still going this time but in limp home mode (2000 rpm and thats it). The sparky put a timing light on it only to find she is firing 23*BTDC and he seems to think it could be another crank angle sensor problem. I wish I could swear on this forum because I have a faily good Repertoire of names I would like to call it and blow off steam.

 

Gone are the days of fixing a cars electrical problems with a pair of long nose pliers!!! I dont know how the small business mechanic survives in the industry without going into high tech computerised analysis machines. The engine in my plane is another high tech device with computers, sensors and the like all for performance and economy, lets hope its more reliable than the bitsaremissing!

 

Looking forward to hearing back from you high tech jockeys and dont mention to buy another vehicle, Im going to run the mongrel into the ground after spending the money I have lately on it with other repairs.

 

Cheers

 

Knighty

 

 

[Ultralights]

one reason why i dont plan on upgrading my falcon AUIII any time soon, runs on factory LPG, and the important thing, i can fix it at home!!!, and get parts for next to nothing on Ebay..

 

 

[Knighty]

Buy a new old model vehicle

 

Yes ultralights, I hear you. I even mentioned to the wife I will buy an old carby job car for her and have it converted to gas. You should have heard what she called me! We all want the latest and greatest but when they fail to proceed BURN EM WHERE THEY BREAKDOWN or just walk away because my army ammo box full of socket sets and you name it aint worth the weight I carry in it at the end of the day with the high tech stuff.

 

I might look into another distributor from the wreckers and swap it over, if it still does the same its not the crank angle sensor, maybe something more sinister.

 

Knighty

 

 

[Guest Redair]

Knighty, don't know if this will be of any help, but... one trick we used to use to fault find without the need for hi-tech computatory-gizzama-jigs, was, (and this will only work if you have access to a similar make and model vehicle) to swap over suspect faulty sensors with ones from working vehicles. If the problem goes away, you have your answer. If not, you either have to repeat for the other sensors, or can assume, (be careful using "assume") that the problem is not in the sensor side of things.

 

Redair.

 

 

[Guest disperse]

I'd be searching the net for a common problem with that engine. Thats too many sensors. So either the sensors have a problem from factory or there is another problem that is killing the sensors.

 

If it's ever had the cams touched. get the timming double checked on them. Some donks have timming sensors on the cams as well. and if there is a little discrepancy, The sensors can kill each other

 

Had this problem on a Kia with a bitsa****i engine.

 

The Kia was a buy , fix , sell.

 

All my keepers have a Toyota badge on them. And never a Mitsabishi badge. They were crap, and they still are crap. Especially in the engine department.

 

( due to unforseen circumstances. I am currently driving a Proton, however should it or when it breaks. I will sell it for scrap metal before I fix it )

 

 

[Ultralights]

we had a similar problem with my fathers Hyundai, at a constant throttle position, such as driving on a freeway or highway, it would develop an intermittent miss in the engine, like someone turning the ignition on and off for a slit second, after numerous sensor replacements the problem didnt go away, we replaced crank angle sensors, the entire computer,oxygen sensors,airflow meters. lots of stuff, then one day it clicked, the miss isnt there when driving in traffic. throttle is moving too much, it might be the throttle position sensor! we replaced the sensor, and the problem stopped, what the problem was is a bit or grease or grit had found its way into the sensor, and when the throttle sensor stopped moving with the movement of the throttle the sensor would not get a reading occasionally, and cause the engine to shut down for a millisecond.

 

chances are the problem might not be with the crank angle sensor, what exactly are the symptoms of the engine problem?

 

 

[Yenn]

My first thought was that if they don't normally have big problems with crank angle sensors, it will probably be something else and just changing the sensor cures the problem for a short while.

 

That is the sum of my knowledge on that sort of engine as I gave up motor mechanicking in 1962. In the days before e;ectronic ignition and injection. I don't even know how to fix a diesel injector pump now, but I do understand Jabiru engines.

 

Disperse has something when he lauds Toyota. I am on my 4th Toyota, so reliable.

 

 

[Knighty]

Throttle position sensor

 

Hi guys

 

I have just got the phone call from my auto electician and he stated that as soon as he removed the LPgas/air mixer from the intake manifold the engine runs at full rpm when you open the throttle however a bit rough because the air flow sensor from the airbox has been removed. He reckons there is a restriction in the mixer however I can not see that somehow as I have had it apart in the past replacing the diaphram and spring assembly.

 

I am just about to go into town and pick the mongrel up now and I have a feeling that it could be the throttle position sensor, I will get it home and have a closer look at it myself. I came out of hospital yesterday after a knee cartilage operation so its going to be fun here at home, so much for a few days off before returning to the office!

 

Yes I also like Toyotas and always have, I have a Daihatsu 1980 4X4 diesel and you cant stop the bloody old rattly thing. I will keep you guys posted on my progress.

 

Thanks for your input, its been great.

 

Knighty

 

 

[Knighty]

200 roo power NOT HORSEPOWER

 

Well I just got it home after 15klm of hopping like a roo out along the road, the auto electrician has got it wrong as there is nothing amiss with the lpg flow mixer, I am sure he just wanted the van out of his yard after parting with $130 being for his labour to date and resetting the computer etc. Ive just sprayed some throttle body cleaner down the shute while it was on high idle and given it a quick test run. It still revs to 3500 and under full load it is breaking down and I noticed that the tacho is jumping about also??? Still could be the throttle position sensor however I will pull it down in the morning when Ive got a cold engine to work on. There looks to be 2 sensors on the throttle body, one connects to the butterfly baffle and the other has 2 water hoses connected to it with about a 6 wire plug. They make things easy to understand, dont they.

 

I will talk to you all later.

 

Knighty

 

 

[Knighty]

Fixed the problem

 

I have got to eat my words here about my auto electrician!

 

I took off into town this morning with the throttle body pulled in parts and thoroughally cleaned, no external sensors to clean or orifices to clean out, just 2 sealed sensor units. I was told by another auto electrician that a little electronic motor that controlled the idle speed had died so I replaced the part $120, nothing wrong with the throttle position sensor.

 

Put the ute back together and it is still running like a hairy canary, back into town to buy a second hand throttle position sensor $35 as no one had a new unit.

 

Put it back together again, still running like a busted bum surging and running rough on and off giving me whiplash up and down my 40 degree incline roadway.

 

Decided to place the LPG gas flow mixer back in line and the motor would not run past 2000rpm and appeared to be in limp home mode again, MMM something restricting the airflow I thought to myself! (just as the auto electrician told me after I departed with $130 for his diagnosis) I pulled the diaphram back out of the mixer and had a closer look only to find the very well disguised problem (diaphram relies on -VE pressure 'manifold suction' to open up and let air/gas through a valve, in other words it depresses a little spring inside and relies on the -VE pressure to stay open).

 

3 out of 4 small internal screws had found their way loose and the suction pressure inside the diaphram was being released so the diapham stayed in the same position no matter what the throttle setting.

 

As for the motor surging and running rough I would think that it did not like the intake tubes off it and possibly a safety feature to make the driver put it into the garage before damage could be done to the internals because of no air cleaner on it.

 

COSTS: new idle control motor $120

 

2nd hand throttle position sensor $35

 

Auto electrician labour $130

 

6 hours of my time including 3 trips into town and back

 

1 borrowed car from a mates car yard $2 cartons of beer (Crownies)

 

And all because of 3 little screws that took me 20 mins to fix from a total stripdown of the parts, tighten and reassemble.

 

I hope someone out there has learnt from my sagas, I know I have! I am glad I never got that apprenticeship as a mechanic when I was 17, I hate working on things now.

 

Thanks guys for all of your input, this forum rocks.

 

Knighty

 

 

[Yenn]

So why didn't the first mechanic find the problem. It seems to me that you have the sort of standards of service there as I have come to expect in Gladstone Qld. That is innefficiency and a willingness to charge for faulty work.

 

 

[Guest Rufus]

Crank angle sensor

 

A few years ago, I had a crank angle sensor replaced in a V.N Commodore.

 

Cost me $130 back then.

 

A friend of mine, a retired cotton farmer who used to run some very fancy tractors, harvesters etc, suggested I'd payed more than I needed.

 

He went on to say that whenever he needed to replace a crank angle sensor or other transistors etc for one of his tractors , he usually took the part or part number into his local Tandy store & replace it for around $8.00.

 

I haven't had the need since to check his theory, but it seems plausable.

 

Car manufactures source many parts from companies designated as O.E. M. (original equipment manufacture) suppliers. So why not transistors ??

 

Roger

 

 

[Ultralights]

just read the thread tonight, i was going to say if its LPG, there most likely will be a vacuum leak, i have a Dedicated LPG falcon, 380,000km and still going strong, every time there has been a problem with the engine, either backfiring, not starting, running really rough, it has always been a vacuum problem or spark problem. i have found with the dedicated gas engine, the spark pugs will rust up before they wear out, backfiring when starting is a sure sign of that, but everything else has been vac related, it has just been a matter of tracking down the leak. another little problem with gas that shows itself occasionally, is within the mixer, there is a solenoid connected to the throttle, the safery cutoff, sometimes this will get a gummy type residue from the lpg in it and prevent the full movement of the solenoid resulting in the engine not starting. it has only been a simply matter of removing, washing in a solvent, and replace.

 

 

[Knighty]

Hi Ultralights

 

Yes such a simple little vacuum leak was all that it took to render the vehicle useless. However now that I have replaced the idle control motor located on the throttle body she runs as smooth a babies behind. we've had the ute for nearly 10 years and I can not remember it running as good as it does now on petrol, its always been good with the LPG however.

 

The Bitsaremissing has never started cold on LPG and has always refused to do it unless your willing to crank it over for 20-30 seconds, not sure why so I figure it needs to be run on petrol anyhow just to keep the injectors clean and in service.

 

I hope I can remember all these little things I have learnt so I can use my knowledge base and experience at a later date, old age and forgetfulness goes hand in hand unfortunately or so I am told!

 

Knighty (46 years of age and counting)

 

 

[Ultralights]

strange about the gas taking 30 secs to start, there is a sticker on the dash of the falcon stating that it is a dedicated LPG engine, and expect 2 to 3 seconds of cranking before start, it has rarely taken more than 2 seconds to start. i think maybe dual fuel cars are tuned to run on the liquid fuel and therefor harder to start on LPG?