frank marriott Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 For those that might be unaware AVDATA bills are now arriving. I do wonder what money changed/is changing hands for this little gem.
Keith Page Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 For those that might be unaware AVDATA bills are now arriving. I do wonder what money changed/is changing hands for this little gem. All that is not quite honest. So how did they twist the privacy agreement to get that through? Our membership details are private and confidential so all that information out there something is breached. If RAAus were insistent about the fees, so could this happen AVDATA sends the details to RAAus, RAAus collect the money and sends it on. For those who have not paid their bill - well can not renew membership and registration. Simple. I did hear on the grape vine there is a kick back to RAAus from AVDATA do not know how much. If that is the case that must be the bate to have them roll over and sell the members out. KP.
440032 Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 I've always found it very odd - how can a business that I have no dealings with, invoice me for something they did not provide (a VH landing someplace)? What if a guy I know who runs his own business, asked me to invoice his customers and seek payment for him? You know what they'd say? Stuffed & Get. Sjussboolschidt. Doesn't make any sense. I'm okay with paying a landing fee if I have to, but to whoever provided the runway, not some third party that I have no contract with and who get my details from the public VH register, and sometimes get it wrong, invoicing me for places I've never been. Easily sorted, but I have to tell them. Has anyone invoiced AVDATA for your time to tell them "it wasn't me." Word has it (happy to be corrected...) AVDATA contact councils and say "Have we got a deal for you! LANDING FEES AT THE AIRPORT! And YOU don't have to do a thing, leave it all to us!" How much of a cut do they get from every dollar? 1
jetjr Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 They get most of it, but for councils its free money they didn't get prior, Avdata will no doubt arrange and advise councils how to set it all up.
jackc Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 They get most of it, but for councils its free money they didn't get prior, Avdata will no doubt arrange and advise councils how to set it all up. So, if everyone contacts the aerodrome admin number for the relevant Council and arranges to pay landing fees direct? Avdata should not be involved? Cheers, Jack.
Downunder Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 It all goes back to controlled access and weight increases for RAA aircraft. The Raa want Raa aircraft operational in cta airports, however (I imagine) airport owners were not happy they could not bill said aircraft. The RAA sold out it's membership to the AAA. (Australian Airport owners Association) Burning the members for aspirations of glory and empire building....thank M&M for that. 3 1
Downunder Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 So, if everyone contacts the aerodrome admin number for the relevant Council and arranges to pay landing fees direct? Avdata should not be involved? Cheers, Jack. I tried to pay the council directly and was told it would be a breach of contract on their part. Avdata have it all locked in and take a very large cut of the $$$ 1
jackc Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 I tried to pay the council directly and was told it would be a breach of contract on their part. Avdata have it all locked in and take a very large cut of the $$$ Be interesting to run it past a solicitor as a local govt entity uses a third party commercial enterprise to collect fees against a ratepayer funded facility? Disclosure of commission fees maybe required? Restricted trade under the relevant Fair Trading laws? Big guess on my part but...... Cheers, Jack. 4
jackc Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 It all goes back to controlled access and weight increases for RAA aircraft. The Raa want Raa aircraft operational in cta airports, however (I imagine) airport owners were not happy they could not bill said aircraft. The RAA sold out it's membership to the AAA. (Australian Airport owners Association) Burning the members for aspirations of glory and empire building....thank M&M for that. Then, the RAA should be accountable to its members best interests, not sell them out? Might be a good subject to bring up at member/RAA forums? Cheers, Jack. 2
Downunder Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Then, the RAA should be accountable to its members best interests, not sell them out? Might be a good subject to bring up at member/RAA forums? Cheers, Jack. You see, the RAA is a monopoly, and when they have your money, there is nothing left for them to get out of you. You have no "potential" left..... So current members are largely meaningless. This is true with a number of businesses, not just RAA. On the other hand there is a booming training market (especially international students) and the RAA management want a cut of the action. They want to get cta access and aircraft up to 750 kg (LAME maintained) for basically the sole purpose getting into ab initio and early GA training. This will give them (temporary) pilot memberships and more aircraft on the books....more money. So SELLING your data gets the AAA onside, which is one step closer to mixing RAA aircraft into GA training..... Something in my opinion the RAA was never set up for and never meant to do. The RAA has effectively been hijacked by a few people for their own asperations of glory and power.... I've been to a few RAA forums and meetings over the last few years and it has taken till now to realise how much BS and lip service was handed out at them. They are smart talkers and are experts at putting you at ease while pulling the rug out from under you. 1 1 2
kaz3g Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 I've always found it very odd - how can a business that I have no dealings with, invoice me for something they did not provide (a VH landing someplace)? What if a guy I know who runs his own business, asked me to invoice his customers and seek payment for him? You know what they'd say? Stuffed & Get. Sjussboolschidt. Doesn't make any sense. I'm okay with paying a landing fee if I have to, but to whoever provided the runway, not some third party that I have no contract with and who get my details from the public VH register, and sometimes get it wrong, invoicing me for places I've never been. Easily sorted, but I have to tell them. Has anyone invoiced AVDATA for your time to tell them "it wasn't me." Word has it (happy to be corrected...) AVDATA contact councils and say "Have we got a deal for you! LANDING FEES AT THE AIRPORT! And YOU don't have to do a thing, leave it all to us!" How much of a cut do they get from every dollar? Happens all the time in business ... called factoring. Company A sells its debt to company B for say 50% of book value. Company B recovers any more of the debt than the 50%, it makes a profit. 1
kasper Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Just ask RAAus two mikes how it complies with legal requirements ... privacy principles specifically give as an example of improper and invalid consent exactly what RAAus did. Maybe the much touted director responsibility pack could in passing mention directly breaching members privacy for an improper purpose might just be a bad thing. But never fear. People who are member don’t give a flying fcuk about direction of management or breach of rules and laws so long as they can just go flying at lower cost than GA. And RAAus management appear to equally not give a fcuk about members privacy or laws because they are well aware that the govt departments will not enforce and as a company it’s up to the shareholders to hold their board to account ... and I refer to many members not giving a fcuk. members were warned about the real risks of converting to company form and three years on pretty much everything I said would happen has. And apparently their is an election in RAAus soon. My annual question to the fcuking board - where are the rules to the election published and made available to the members as would be required under the bloody constitution you pushed through and have steadfastly ignored for every year since? To the current directors of RAAus - wake up and make at least a passing effort to appear to give a fcuk about communication and compliance. And my thanks to the Uk clothing brand fcuk for providing such a useful name for unhappy forum posters where software really stops fuck being posted. 1
jackc Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Just ask RAAus two mikes how it complies with legal requirements ... privacy principles specifically give as an example of improper and invalid consent exactly what RAAus did. Maybe the much touted director responsibility pack could in passing mention directly breaching members privacy for an improper purpose might just be a bad thing. But never fear. People who are member don’t give a flying fcuk about direction of management or breach of rules and laws so long as they can just go flying at lower cost than GA. And RAAus management appear to equally not give a fcuk about members privacy or laws because they are well aware that the govt departments will not enforce and as a company it’s up to the shareholders to hold their board to account ... and I refer to many members not giving a fcuk. members were warned about the real risks of converting to company form and three years on pretty much everything I said would happen has. And apparently their is an election in RAAus soon. My annual question to the fcuking board - where are the rules to the election published and made available to the members as would be required under the bloody constitution you pushed through and have steadfastly ignored for every year since? To the current directors of RAAus - wake up and make at least a passing effort to appear to give a fcuk about communication and compliance. And my thanks to the Uk clothing brand fcuk for providing such a useful name for unhappy forum posters where software really stops **** being posted. Well, I have been here all of 10 minutes and I do give a fcuk! But given my lack of knowledge, I can’t probaly say much and not to mention I don’t want to wear a flamethrower for putting my foot in it. Cheers, Jack.
circuitsun Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 Please excuse any screw-ups wit this post, it is the first one I have ever made [in my life], I have followed this forum for some years now, learnt quite a lot in thew process, thanks to your posts. Yes, I admit now, I was one of the majority, "just wanted to fly' & let others run the show. BIG MISTAKE ! I was gobsmacked [yes, please excuse my naivety ]when I discovered my personal information had been treated with such disregard & contempt by RAA. Not any consultation, or even notification, that the privacy policy, under which I signed on with RAA, was going to be, effectively, trashed, & my personal data released on a whim. - guess it indicates how little protection a privacy policy really offers, & the continual assurances from our esteemed chairman & CEO. was totally worthless. They, along with the directors that voted for this, have lost all personal honour, their word & integrity is now totally worthless, They can no longer be trusted in any endeavor. The sheer arrogance is a smack in the face, to put it mildly, & a huge disappointment in RAA. that I, in my ignorance, thought was going along quite well. It has however shaken me out of my apathy somewhat, I started doing some research into the operation of RAA, esp since the change to company status. Fellow members, . . . We have truly been screwed, I am SO sorry now, I didn't pay more attention to those of you, that obviously [now], knew more about what was going on, & tried to warn of the hijack, that was in process. Alas, those intelligent voices, were drowned by the slick smiles & tongues, of those with their own agenda's. We have now lost control of our own association. I have completed my draft complaint to RAA, that is a requisite for a complaint to the privacy Commission. I will continue, as best I can, to look more closely into the workings of RAA. I am sure I am not along in my anger at, & disappointment in, RAA, & urge all of you, to look more closely at what is actually going on in "YOUR" RAA [easier said that done I admit ] If you share my disappointment/dissatisfaction, lodge a complaint to RAA, followed [30 days later] by a complaint to the P.C. discuss RAA's governance with other members, & try to get the jist of what is really happening, With less apathy, & just a little action, perhaps we can still make a difference, change the direction back to what RAA was origianlly conceived to do. Not allow a mini casa to develop. be much more skeptical of statements by M & M, they have proven to be less than respectful of the truth, & more than a little manipulative. A very sad situation indeed. thanks for reading. 8 1
Yenn Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 If we land at airports that have a fee for landing but we don't pay up. Those airports could well say RAAus aircraft are not allowed to land there. The airport owner probably has a right to say that and if we then land there he can take action against us. I really can't see why we should be able to hide our identity and still use the facility. You just work out if it is worthwhile going to an airport, which charges a fee. I used to buy all my fuel at my local airport, but now they charge a fee I no longer go there. I have to get fuel elsewhere and it may even cost more, but I think Gladstone Aerodrome Board is really the loser.
jackc Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 Please excuse any screw-ups wit this post, it is the first one I have ever made [in my life], I have followed this forum for some years now, learnt quite a lot in thew process, thanks to your posts. Yes, I admit now, I was one of the majority, "just wanted to fly' & let others run the show. BIG MISTAKE ! I was gobsmacked [yes, please excuse my naivety ]when I discovered my personal information had been treated with such disregard & contempt by RAA. Not any consultation, or even notification, that the privacy policy, under which I signed on with RAA, was going to be, effectively, trashed, & my personal data released on a whim. - guess it indicates how little protection a privacy policy really offers, & the continual assurances from our esteemed chairman & CEO. was totally worthless. They, along with the directors that voted for this, have lost all personal honour, their word & integrity is now totally worthless, They can no longer be trusted in any endeavor. The sheer arrogance is a smack in the face, to put it mildly, & a huge disappointment in RAA. that I, in my ignorance, thought was going along quite well. It has however shaken me out of my apathy somewhat, I started doing some research into the operation of RAA, esp since the change to company status. Fellow members, . . . We have truly been screwed, I am SO sorry now, I didn't pay more attention to those of you, that obviously [now], knew more about what was going on, & tried to warn of the hijack, that was in process. Alas, those intelligent voices, were drowned by the slick smiles & tongues, of those with their own agenda's. We have now lost control of our own association. I have completed my draft complaint to RAA, that is a requisite for a complaint to the privacy Commission. I will continue, as best I can, to look more closely into the workings of RAA. I am sure I am not along in my anger at, & disappointment in, RAA, & urge all of you, to look more closely at what is actually going on in "YOUR" RAA [easier said that done I admit ] If you share my disappointment/dissatisfaction, lodge a complaint to RAA, followed [30 days later] by a complaint to the P.C. discuss RAA's governance with other members, & try to get the jist of what is really happening, With less apathy, & just a little action, perhaps we can still make a difference, change the direction back to what RAA was origianlly conceived to do. Not allow a mini casa to develop. be much more skeptical of statements by M & M, they have proven to be less than respectful of the truth, & more than a little manipulative. A very sad situation indeed. thanks for reading. Time to nominate for the board, swamp them with nominations and try to fix it from the inside Obviously it seems there are problems that need fixing. Cheers, Jack. (Starting to wonder if this Aviation gig is worth the grief) 2
Keith Page Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 circuitsun.. Great to see you are getting your voice out there. You are so correct the members are being treat with utter contempt. Wonderful to see you are jumping in and making a noise. KP
jackc Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 Time to nominate for the board, swamp them with nominations and try to fix it from the inside Obviously it seems there are problems that need fixing. Cheers, Jack. (Starting to wonder if this Aviation gig is worth the grief) Building on my post I went here: Information for Nominees for the 2019 Board Director Nominations. Guess they are not looking for people from the coal face, looks like a need to be somewhat elitist to get a look in the door. Cheers, Jack. 1
Old Koreelah Posted June 6, 2019 Posted June 6, 2019 Building on my post I went here: Information for Nominees for the 2019 Board Director Nominations. Guess they are not looking for people from the coal face, looks like a need to be somewhat elitist to get a look in the door. Cheers, Jack. Elitist? How so, Jack? What we need is directors with a good grasp of governance, administration and who always work for the best long-term interests of the members.
jackc Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 Elitist? How so, Jack? What we need is directors with a good grasp of governance, administration and who always work for the best long-term interests of the members. The last part of your post is the answer, “best long term interest of the members”. Sometimes it pays to recruit from outside the box, even the local garbage collector could have something worthwhile to contribute..... Cheers, Jack. 1
Yenn Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 I have not looked at the qualifications RAAus wants for members to have before they considered nominating, but that is only what the 2 michaels want. It doesn't matter what your qualifications are you can nominate if you pay money to RAAus as membership. It is then up to you to tell the membership, how good you will be for the position and to get enough votes to win a position. That shouldn't be too hard to do considering that very few members vote, but I doubt that very few members take much interest, at least that is the way it has been for years. Personally I am considering selling my planes and enjoying old age with no maintenance and paperwarfare to be done.
FlyingVizsla Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 I have started a thread for the RAA Election 2019 - so this thread can get back to talking about Avdata & landing fees. 1
Jim McDowall Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 I really can't see why we should be able to hide our identity and still use the facility. Yenn, there is a vast difference between wanting to hide your identity and an organisation which is subject to the stringency of the Privacy Act disclosing your personal information without your specific consent. If every organisation you dealt with passed on your personal information on their whim (ie without your consent) you would have no privacy as the vast army of Facebookers have found out. It is a matter of the LAW not an organisation's wish to be seen as a "good corporate citizen" that needs to be the primary consideration. As the AFP chief said recently in the matter of the raids on journalists (inc ABC), EVERYBODY is subject to the laws of the land. 3
poteroo Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 data have it all locked in and take a very large cut of the $$$ I'm informed that it is 40% BTW, if you believe that Avdata, or any airport owner, have billed you for ops that you didn't do - then simply photograph your M/R, or logbook, to show that neither you nor the aircraft were the identified party. Never had it disputed. happy days,
Keith Page Posted June 7, 2019 Posted June 7, 2019 Building on my post I went here: Information for Nominees for the 2019 Board Director Nominations. Guess they are not looking for people from the coal face, looks like a need to be somewhat elitist to get a look in the door. Cheers, Jack. jackc.. Just a moment have a think''''they''''' want people with degrees.. What you need to consider is what the members want. It is something like what the pollies are, that is get elected and tell us what we are going to get, I thought it was -- we give them our wishes and they go from there, nup, they tell us what we got to do for them. This RAAus board is the same, except for those rusted on supporters, they would stay loyal even if they were being fleeced of their last cent. I do not know what you want I need someone with practical common sense. KP. 1
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