TSR-2 The Story.

[Phil Perry]

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[Old Koreelah]

The "could have been" country.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Politics and infighting destroyed what would have been easily the most dominant military aviation industry on the planet.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Britain survived two world wars despite ongoing animosities and jealousies between services.

 

The Army’s control of things with wings early in WW1

 

The “Senior Service” argued against budget provisions for the RAF after its creation

 

The RAFs attempts to scuttle the Naval air service between wars

 

The RAFs depletion of naval pilots to bolster its own under-resourced ranks in WWII

 

The RAFs frustration over Army controlling the AOPs in WWII and failure to compliment the little Austers with some sort of retaliatory ability

 

Shift by Army to helicopters (unarmed) opposed by RAF but Army persevered eventually getting gunships.

 

And on it goes.

 

 

[derekliston]

Back then I was an apprentice with Ferranti, the company that built the radar equipment. When the project was cancelled, they had to complete all of the contracted radar sets, then they were taken out and destroyed. All governments are brilliant at wasting taxpayers money. At the time they were cancelled I believe the idea was that they would buy the F111. Don’t know who got the backhander from the US for that but I would take a bet that someone did. In the end they didn’t buy the F111 either because of design delays with the swing wing. American consultant at Ferranti at the time said they wished they had never heard of Barnes-Wallis.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

TSR2 and the Canadian Avro Arrow. Two aircraft potentially better than anything the Yanks had at the time. Guess where the pressure came from to destroy both designs.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Sorry guys but I have this jaundiced idea that england is rule by landed gentry who are educated in the classics and can't tell a good design if they fell over it.

[Geoff_H]

From all I read Winston Churchill was able to assess good ideas from bad. It was probably his greatest skill. I don't think that he was landed gentry.

[kgwilson]

He made some monumental blunders too. The Gallipoli campaign was a major one albeit managed by incompetent military leaders. He carried the guilt of this failure right through to D-Day where he was racked with fear of another failed invasion attempt. This didn't stop him from becoming the voice that turned defeat at Dunkirk into a victory and changing the British attitude into one of total defiance. He listened to many and made many good decisions and promoted technology ideas that conservatives considered completely wacky. He made bad decisions too like listening to Mallory & Douglas to oust Hugh Dowding as head of Fighter Command after the Battle of Britain.

[Bruce Tuncks]

He was a most unusual guy, that Winston Churchill. Yes he was some sort of aristocrat but also American a bit. He was almost the sole reason why england entered the war, his competitor was lord halifax, who was an admirer of hitler, at least in the beginning days. Rudolf Hess was so surprised when england declared war that he went to england to sort out the mistake.

I reckon Churchill was responsible for waddington having any position of authority, and this did great things for aircraft maintenance.

Mind you, gallipoli was the most terrible idea of a terrible war. I think churchill was responsible.

[Bruce Tuncks]

kg, your post arrived just before i sent mine... I see we agree anyway.

[Old Koreelah]

He was a most unusual guy, that Winston Churchill. Yes he was some sort of aristocrat but also American a bit. He was almost the sole reason why england entered the war, his competitor was lord halifax, who was an admirer of hitler, at least in the beginning days. Rudolf Hess was so surprised when england declared war that he went to england to sort out the mistake.

I reckon Churchill was responsible for waddington having any position of authority, and this did great things for aircraft maintenance.

Mind you, gallipoli was the most terrible idea of a terrible war. I think churchill was responsible.

Yep, Churchill was born into the aristocracy, but that didn't stop him using his noggin.

The Dardanelles campaign was a good idea stuffed up by knuckleheads.

 

Before WWII, the two leaders were in the same city. Hitler had met and negotiated with several British leaders. It's said Churchill was the only British politician he feared; the Fuhrer refused to meet him.

 

What did Rudolf Hess know that caused him to be locked in solitary for life, when actual war criminals like Speer walked free after a few years?

[Jim McDowall]

The story goes that Australia was going to buy the TSR-2 until Mountbatten visited Canberra and convinced the Cabinet that it was a non starter. We ended up buying the F-111 and the TSR-2 project crumbled away without support from the dominions. Mountbatten's true motivation may never be known.

[willedoo]

The decision making seemed to go from bad to worse; drop the TSR-2 then create the Phrankenstein Phantom.