Admin Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 Sport and recreational rules milestone - Part 149 commences The regulation of sport and recreational aviation passed an important milestone on 14 July – with the commencement of the first aviation regulation specifically designed for the sector. Part 149 of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998 (CASR) introduces a broad and flexible regulatory framework for sport and recreational organisations who administer certain aviation activities. Sport and recreational aviation self-administration has existed in Australia operating under a range of regulatory exemptions, going back, in some cases for more than 60 years. For the first time, the regulations now recognise those organisations who administer sport and recreational aviation and approved organisations will be issued with a Part 149 Approved Self-Administering Organisation (ASAO) Certificate from CASA. CASA will begin assessing transition applications for Part 149 Certificates in the coming weeks, with two organisations advising they are nearing completion of their exposition. For further information: Manual of Standards (MOS) for CASR Part 149 Approved Self-Administering The Part 149 application form for transitioning ASAOs The Part 149 application form for new ASAOs The compliance matrix CASR Part 149 page on CASA’s website. Any questions: [email protected]. 1
old man emu Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 For those interested, the area of Part 149 that affects actual flying is Chapter 2 Division 2 Subdivision B which describes the aviation administration functions of the approval. https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2018L01800?utm_source=phplist1881&utm_medium=email&utm_content=HTML&utm_campaign=Sport+and+recreational+rules+milestone+-+Part+149+commences+[sEC%3DUNCLASSIFIED]
KRviator Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 So....For the uninformed among us, because we hear the SAAA and RAAus spruiking "We're going to Part149", "We're Part 149 compliant" et al... WTF does part 149 actually mean, do and give us?!? 2
Jim McDowall Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 It empties the organisation's bank accounts, increases costs to members, increases CASA's staff and ultimately dooms recreational aviation through greater regulation delivered by proxy and cost. WTF does part 149 actually mean, do and give us?!? 1 2
turboplanner Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 If nobody knows what it means then RAA can hardly say it's compliant, and needs to do some education work right now to protect themselves. 1 1
jackc Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Gobbledegook for me, sorry but with my very limited knowledge, I don’t have a clue ? Cheers, Jack
turboplanner Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 @turboplanner educate us I'll have another read. Last time I looked it didn't look too onerous. 1 1
M61A1 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 It’s clear that everyone posting here has access to the internet. Why, when all this information is available, do people jump online and ask someone else what the rules are when they could just as easily read them for themselves. And surely it would be better to question the administrators of the rules than Joe Bloggs online? short version: Read the rules. If you don’t understand them ask the people who made the rules what they mean. 1 2
jackc Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Well, write the rules so they are reasonable easy to understand. If not then don’t expect reasonable compliance. its an increasing trend with most things regulatory in modern society. Don’t write rules I can understand, then my care factor is pretty low The RAA should be able to clarify Part 149, for the less knowledgeable members.. Cheers, Jack. 2
Thruster88 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 short version: Read the rules. If you don’t understand them ask the people who made the rules what they mean. If it's to convoluted and complicated people just might not bother, is this why casa produce the visual flight guide ? I believe they are working on somthing similar to explain the part(s) I will wait for that, not interested in ploughing through page after page of legal bs. 1
old man emu Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 OK. Simple explanation. Part 149 Chapter 2 Division 2 Subdivision B describes what an organisation can administer. Subdivision B—Aviation administration functions in relation to Part 149 aircraft 14 ASAO registration of certain aircraft 15 Airworthiness standards and assessments etc. 16 Airworthiness activities 17 Part 149 airworthiness organisations 18 Part 149 airworthiness training 19 Flight operations—procedures for safe conduct 20 Flight operations—duties essential to the operation of aircraft 21 Part 149 flight training organisations 22 Applications to undertake aviation activity on basis of existing authorisations What Part 149 does is bring RAAus, Gliders, parachutists, ballonists etc, etc under a single Safety Regulation. All the guff and stuff in the Regulation describes how an organisation will administer the aviation activities it is approved to administer. For individual pilots, all this stuff will not affect existing approvals made by, say RAAus. All RAAus has to do to issue new pilot's certificates and to register new aircraft is to apply to CASA and provide the necessary information in a manner that makes it easy for CASA to determine if all the boxes have been ticked. What might affect the man in the left hand seat is that new organisations might arise to administer niche areas of aviation. For the individual, the commencement of Part 149 is an air pocket on a sunny day. 1
KRviator Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 It’s clear that everyone posting here has access to the internet. Why, when all this information is available, do people jump online and ask someone else what the rules are when they could just as easily read them for themselves. And surely it would be better to question the administrators of the rules than Joe Bloggs online? short version: Read the rules. If you don’t understand them ask the people who made the rules what they mean. I am usually very, very good with "the rules" (just ask my employer who hates that trait...), but "the rules" as they relate to our operations are such a convoluted mess that I suggest no one can understand them to maintain 100% compliance, 100% of the time - and if you don't, then you've committed an offence of strict liability (I do understand that bit..). As for questioning 'the administrator", try asking CAsA the same question three times in a row, and if you come up with less than 2 answers, you've done well. They can't even understand the meaning of the word foreign... But, let's take a look at one rule of the new Part 149...with my bolding. Count those bold references. There are 18 references to other rules, in this one rule. So, to fully understand this one rule, you have to crossreference those other 18 rules. This is the kind or problem Australian aviation has. The rules are written for lawyers, not those at the coalface, and they are written in such a convoluted way that even if you make an honest and genuine attempt at complying with them, but breach one or more, because they are strict liability offences, CAsA only needs to prove you did it, the 'honest and reasonable' defence doesn't apply. And with a regulator of CAsA's reputation, that is a baaaad thing. 37 Requirements for content of exposition (1) This section: (a) is made for the purposes of paragraph 149.340(k) of CASR; and (b) provides for additional matters that must be included in the ASAO’s exposition. Note: Paragraphs 149.340(a) to (j) of CASR also provide for matters that must be included in the ASAO’s exposition. (2) An exposition for an ASAO must include the following: (a) the ASAO’s name and contact details; (b) any operating or business name of the ASAO, including its ABN (if any); © the principal physical address at which the ASAO’s accountable manager performs their duties and responsibilities; (d) if the ASAO is a corporation—the name of each of the officers of the corporation, its ACN and the address of its registered office; (e) a description and diagram of the ASAO’s organisation showing formal reporting lines, including the formal reporting lines for the ASAO’s key personnel positions; (f) the process to be followed by the ASAO if a member of the ASAO’s personnel fails to carry out his or her duties or responsibilities in relation to the ASAO’s approved functions; (g) the period for notifying CASA for the purposes of subparagraph 149.085(d)(i) of CASR; (h) the maximum period for which a person may simultaneously occupy the positions of safety manager and any other key personnel position for the purposes of subparagraph 149.085(f)(i) of CASR; (i) a description of how the ASAO manages the risk of human fatigue in the performance of the ASAO’s approved functions; (j) if required by CASA—the ASAO’s alcohol and other drugs policy; (k) for an ASAO that has entered into an agreement with another ASAO for the purpose of mutually ensuring that the activities of the organisations would not be likely to have an adverse effect on the safety of air navigation—if required by CASA, a copy of any document containing a description of the processes and procedures relating to: (i) the information sharing arrangements between the organisations; and (ii) the operational cooperation arrangements between the organisations; (l) a description of the procedures that will ensure that the ASAO is able to comply with the requirements of subregulation 149.195(2) of CASR (suitably competent, qualified and trained personnel); (m) a description of the ASAO’s record keeping and retention procedures; (n) the time for reporting to CASA under subregulation 149.425(2) of CASR; (o) the ASAO’s process for identifying a change to the exposition mentioned in paragraph 149.340(h) of CASR (changes to the exposition that do not require CASA’s approval); (p) the ASAO’s process for: (i) making applications to CASA under regulation 149.115 of CASR (approval of changes to the exposition); and (ii) notifying the ASAO’s personnel of any approved changes; (q) if the ASAO is approved to perform the aviation administration function of establishing and maintaining a register of aircraft—a description of the procedures for the registration of aircraft and the publication of a register of aircraft so registered; ® a copy of any document prepared by the ASAO that contains the ASAO’s rules and procedures relevant to its approved functions. Note: For paragraph (2)(q), see the prescribed aviation administration function in section 14 (ASAO registration of certain aircraft). 2 1
M61A1 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Well, write the rules so they are reasonable easy to understand. If not then don’t expect reasonable compliance. its an increasing trend with most things regulatory in modern society. Don’t write rules I can understand, then my care factor is pretty low The RAA should be able to clarify Part 149, for the less knowledgeable members.. Cheers, Jack. I'm not suggesting they are easy to understand. All I'm suggesting is that if you don't understand them, arguing with others on the internet about their real meaning or existence is a bit pointless when it would take less effort to contact the regulator or administrator and ask them to clarify them for you. Try telling one of them your incident was caused because your "care factor" was pretty low. I agree KR. They are written terribly. I wrote what I did because so many times I have seen people post questions about the rules, to ask others and invariably get several different interpretations, when the answer can be found in 2-3 minutes using google on the CASA website. I'm no genius, and I'm barely computer literate by today's standards, so if I need to know and can't work it out, an answer from the regulator is going to hold up better in court than one from some guy online.
jackc Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 If the rules cannot be interpreted correctly by those to whom they apply. ”CAsA only needs to prove you did it, the 'honest and reasonable' defence doesn't apply. And with a regulator of CAsA's reputation, that is a baaaad thing.“ Then I will see them in court, worked for me with the ATO. Cheers, Jack. 1
jackc Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 I'm not suggesting they are easy to understand. All I'm suggesting is that if you don't understand them, arguing with others on the internet about their real meaning or existence is a bit pointless when it would take less effort to contact the regulator or administrator and ask them to clarify them for you. Try telling one of them your incident was caused because your "care factor" was pretty low. Try asking for written clarification, like most Govt entities no one wants to put their name to anything regulatory. I will wait for a proper and easy to understand interpretation from the RAA, it’s their job. Cheers, Jack. 2
M61A1 Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 If the rules cannot be interpreted correctly by those to whom they apply. ”CAsA only needs to prove you did it, the 'honest and reasonable' defence doesn't apply. And with a regulator of CAsA's reputation, that is a baaaad thing.“ Then I will see them in court, worked for me with the ATO. Cheers, Jack. I have to ask....Do you get you tax advice from the ATO or accountant......or some bloke on an internet forum? 1 1
fly_tornado Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 I have to ask....Do you get you tax advice from the ATO or accountant......or some bloke on an internet forum? sit back and enjoy the ride https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDCwPWyTzS7Yz1MtbqSKpog
jackc Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 I have to ask....Do you get you tax advice from the ATO or accountant......or some bloke on an internet forum? The accountant failed me badly, his financial adviser was suspended and under investigation by ASIC, my new accountant was fired from his practice 12 months after I moved there. Consequently I would not trust an accountant to manage a money box! Cheers, Jack.
spacesailor Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 I for one member Do Not speak "Lawyer speech" .And I agree with Jackc, " Well, write the rules so they are reasonable easy to understand. ". Far Too many Lawyers & bureaucrats used to baffle the masses. spacesailor 1
old man emu Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 When will you blokes accept the fact that the introduction of Part 149 will have practically no affect on your flying? It's all to do with standardizing the approval procedures for an organisations such as RAAus, GFA, Warbirds etc to be able to administer their particular aviation niche. 1
spacesailor Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Still needs to be in Australian, Not Lawyer-speak. spacesailor
Jim McDowall Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 When will you blokes accept the fact that the introduction of Part 149 will have practically no affect on your flying? Old adage which is proved consistently true: "When someone from the Government lads on your doorstep and says 'I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you' the first thing you should do is hide your wallet" Have a look at the 90 page Part 149 exposition that the NZ Aero Club prepared and tell me that it did not cost a mozza to produce (paid for by the members) and a mozza to maintain (audits etc). What is so different about the relationship between RAAus etc and CASA that requires this mountain of BS.? There is no demonstrated safety case or evidence that the paper mountain will do anything other than increase the cost to members. Remember that the current CASA subsidy to carry out their administrative functions will not be continuing - immediately cost $120,000. BTW have a look at RAANZ's safety policy - one paragraph and no mandatory dedicated safety manager is required. The inconsistency in our Part 149 is that an individual can hold a Part 149 certificate but cannot be the safety manager. Part 149 will ultimately spell the end of recreational aviation - uncontrolled recurrent cost doom any organisation to eventual failure.
old man emu Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 As a person who writes documentation I reckon I could knock out an Part 149 exposition document for around $1000.
jackc Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Make that offer to the RAA and save the members 10 grand ? Cheers, Jack 1
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