Reports of a plane crash at William Creek.

[cooperplace]

Reports of plane crash at William Creek:

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-28/plane-crash-at-remote-william-creek-airfield/11354666?WT.ac=statenews_sa

 

 

[cooperplace]

now states the occupants (a man and a woman) are in a stable condition.

 

 

[Thruster88]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-28/william-creek-crash-1/11354768

 

 

[pmccarthy]

RV 6A looks like it landed on the nose wheel.

 

 

[turboplanner]

RV 6A looks like it landed on the nose wheel.

 

It was good to see they were able to exit the aircraft, so the canopy structure is reassuring.

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

It was good to see they were able to exit the aircraft, so the canopy structure is reassuring.

 

From what I understand, they had to be freed from the aircraft. Hate those canopies that can trap you if your plane flips.

 

 

[red750]

An ex military chopper pilot, according to reports.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

From what I understand, they had to be freed from the aircraft. Hate those canopies that can trap you if your plane flips.

 

Yep. The problem of entrapment is real and was major component of a complete disaster with a member of my SAAA chapter a few years ago. 

 

RV that flipped over and entrapped by canopy being in contact with ground. Upside down with multiple injuries for prolonged period. Caused a number of complex physiological changes.

 

When he was extracted finally the effects already in place coupled with the reversion to the horizontal position caused a cardiac arrest. 

 

Resuscitated “successfully” but  all the issues left him with significant permanent problems. 

 

 

[M61A1]

Yep. The problem of entrapment is real and was major component of a complete disaster with a member of my SAAA chapter a few years ago. 

 

RV that flipped over and entrapped by canopy being in contact with ground. Upside down with multiple injuries for prolonged period. Caused a number of complex physiological changes.

 

When he was extracted finally the effects already in place coupled with the reversion to the horizontal position caused a cardiac arrest. 

 

Resuscitated “successfully” but  all the issues left him with significant permanent problems. 

 

Medically, is there a reason that they would leave the aircraft upside down while they extract the occupants? From the photos in this thread, there were more than enough people to get it upright again. If events like those you explained occur, it would make it very sensible to flip it back over again, as soon as possible.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

probably because they are used to dealing with car accidents

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Jaba and others on this forum could comment on the medical implications, but emergency personnel are trained to stabilise a crashed vehicle prior to extrication.

 

However, there are always exceptions.

 

We once carefully rolled a car back into its wheels, with paramedic and trapped patient inside, because it allowed better access for rescue. Many aircraft are a bit easier to cut into than cars, so that may not be necessary.

 

 

[biggles]

Sure, you need to consider the welfare of those trapped in the aircraft, but before you start getting too excited you also need to ensure that things like ballistic chutes, and all sources of ignition are disabled. Accident investigators have training in these matters, so get advice from ATSB on Emerg. No., or things might get a whole lot worse..... Bob 

 

 

[cooperplace]

My wife and I once pulled a woman from a car that had been in accident, was upside down and the engine was revving like crazy. We got her out just as it caught fire. Then the cops arrived and said move on, move on, so I've no idea of how she did. My wife, a clinician, thought she had a fractured skull, but she was speaking to us. Sometimes you just have to get people out.

 

 

[facthunter]

 I doubt the average person would realise how light an ultralight is. Low wing planes with canopies are a risk in these situations. There's always going to be fuel running out some where. unless it's already run out in the air. Nev

 

 

[onetrack]

You have to be very aware of the fact, if you are first on an accident scene, where accident victims are trapped for more than 15 minutes, with severe crush injuries (particularly to large muscle masses, such as lower limbs) - and those body parts are still under crush pressure - you can kill the victims in a few minutes, simply by removing the crushing pressure, if you do not have the immediate ability to hand, to inject the victims with a saline drip or sodium bicarbonate.

 

What happens is, the rapid release of great pressure from the muscle-crushing weight, causes the large area/s of crushed muscle, to release a sudden and large volume of potent toxins, such as potassium, phosphorous, and myoglobin. 

 

By far the most dangerous of an overload of these chemicals in the bloodstream, is potassium.

 

Large amounts of potassium released from crushed muscle mass after the crushing weight is removed, can cause rapid heart failure.

 

This is called the "Crush Syndrome" or in the old days, the "Smiling Death". Victims would be released from their crushing weight, and would show no major distress (often due to shock), but they would die rapidly, often with a smile on their faces, because their nerve endings were so badly mutilated, they weren't feeling a lot of pain.

 

An overload of myoglobin in the body can cause renal failure, as the kidneys fail to cope with the by-products of the excessive myoglobin in the body.

 

However, this is usually a slower process, and can be managed after the victim is extracted.

 

There is a substantial degree of disagreement amongst health professionals and medical services over the exact procedure for extricating crush victims, and the correct initial treatment of them.

 

In the U.K., medical authorities advise that severe crush victims trapped for more than 15 minutes, should not be released from their crushing weight until paramedics are on site to inject the victim.

 

In Australia, St John advise that trapped victims can be released from crushing weight, but that the first responder must continually monitor their condition, and be alert to the possibility of sudden heart attack (myocardial ischaemia), caused by a potassium overload - whereupon, the first responder will need to apply CPR.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Very true, OT, and something all potential rescuers should be aware of.

 

Our rescue squad learned about Crush Syndrome the hard way.

 

In my experience our local response is more like the UK approach.

 

 

[turboplanner]

ATSB Report: Investigation: AO-2019-037 - Landing accident involving Van’s RV-6A, VH-ANU, William Creek ALA, South Australia, on 28 July 2019

[Guest Machtuk]

That 6 was a real mess, they where lucky to have survived! I went and had a look at the wreck last year when I was up at WMC, nasty business?

I'm not a fan of the Vans training wheel versions for this very reason but each to their own!

[onetrack]

That RV-6 front wheel strut design is obviously in need of a major redesign, if an experienced pilot with many hours under his belt can hit the runway with it, in just a fairly normal, if a little bouncy landing.

[turboplanner]

That RV-6 front wheel strut design is obviously in need of a major redesign, if an experienced pilot with many hours under his belt can hit the runway with it, in just a fairly normal, if a little bouncy landing.

What the ATSB is saying is the accident was caused by the nose wheel fork contacting the ground, so it could also have been soft runway conditions.

[facthunter]

ALL nosewheels should be treated as fragile. They also said the strut was strong enough design wise.. A plane can pivot forward on it's mainwheels quite rapidly in some circumstances.. Nev

[kgwilson]

The unsealed runway with sand and gravel surface was reported to be in good condition. I don't know the design but for the fork to hit the runway it must be somewhat below axle height & presumably be sprung so if additional weight from whatever source allows the fork to hit the runway, then the design is poor. Maybe the sand was a bit soft when it came down a second time but even so there should be a limit to stop the fork hitting the ground IMHO. The fact that the owner had modified the system to try to prevent this is a good indication that the design needs a rethink.

[Yenn]

There is no reason for the fork of the nosewheel to contact the runway if the plane is being flown correctly. If the tyre was punctured it would possibly allow the fork to have a lot more pressure on it than usual, but that pressure should come when the speed was quite low.

I see far too many nosewheel aircraft just flown onto the strip, only the other day one survived here after landing Port main and nosewheel, with the stbd. main still off the ground.

[Student Pilot]

It's good we have so many expert fliers on this site that know the answer to everything

[turboplanner]

It's good we have so many expert fliers on this site that know the answer to everything

You seem to be implying that everyone is wrong so what's the answer then?