NSW Boeing 737 Fire Bomber

[jetjr]

Comments on individual crop selections and how they are suite to Australia doesn't follow facts, the concept that cotton (or any other crop) should be legislated out of production is a road to regional devastation. Picking winners - which is exactly what you are proposing- has never worked and resulted in some of the most distorted and financially crippling periods in Agricultural history

 

Dairy, Nuts, Lucerne and many others use similar water and some even more. Most use water highly efficiently contrary to whats sold in the media.

 

There is no other annual crop that returns the same to the producers and is highly exported generating jobs and income to operate the rest of their farms and communities

 

As far as pesticide use goes Id have thought they now would be lower per ha than many food crops found in your basket

 

Lots of uninformed opinions without much backing.

 

Also contrary to many thoughts and current drought, Australia has plenty of fresh water .society has chosen to send it down and out the end of a major river into the ocean, largely benefiting one state.

 

Models and mindsets fixed on maintaining fresh lakes and constantly flowing rivers in seawater areas is costing dearly, mostly only seen when the country doesn't have the water to spare -like now

 

Re pumped hydro, few admit or understand that every time you convert energy from one state to another, around 20% is lost. Round trip efficiencies of pumped hydro are pretty awful, ie you get back bit over half the power you put in let alone very expensive maintenance costs. That makes the energy conserved more than double the price of the method used to generate it in the first place.

 

Also power must be generated close to where its used, transmission losses also take a big chunk of capital and energy.

 

 

[turboplanner]

See if we ever needed proof, the evil  Thatcher had a small conscience and respect for facts, it is there.

 

Come on fellas if she can do it, anyone can.

 

Or at least see the oncoming bus blinking its lights, slamming its horns and get out of the bloody way.

 

 Even John Howard could do that.

 

I think you've got your eagles and turkeys mixed up.

 

 

[facthunter]

That is NOT the main point of the battery. It is used to stabilise the network as was well explained by the New LIBERAL leader of SA. Claimed saving of the current battery 47million and the new extra one will provide a similar benefit, proportionately. There are also about 3 other battery systems in SA. . Morrissons exceptionally stupid/frivolous comment s about it  shows factless political opportunism. Tesla said If it doesn't work, You don't have to pay for it. Now they are installing more having   proven first hand that it does. Perhaps others now might give some thought to doing the same.  Nev

 

 

[octave]

That is NOT the main point of the battery. It is used to stabilise the network as was well explained by the New LIBERAL leader of SA. Claimed saving of the current battery 47million and the new extra one will provide a similar benefit, proportionately. There are also about 3 other battery systems in SA. . Morrissons exceptionally stupid/frivolous comment s about it  shows factless political opportunism. Tesla said If it doesn't work, You don't have to pay for it. Now they are installing more having   proven first hand that it does. Perhaps others now might give some thought to doing the same.  Nev

 

A quick search on the subject of grid sized  battery system shows a long list of similar sized batteries around the world already in use or in development including the new 800gw redox flow battery in China. 

 

 

[jetjr]

Batteries, renewables are all good things, its the cost, both capital and lifetime, that is the problem

 

Reckon govt kicked in 20+ Million for the SA battery being discussed - banked directly off shore

 

It sure wasn't sold as a network stabilising tool, but as having the ability to store and use later renewable energy

 

Ill bet many general public inc media, believe batteries and pumped hydro actually make power rather than consume a lot of it.

 

 

[turboplanner]

That is NOT the main point of the battery. It is used to stabilise the network as was well explained by the New LIBERAL leader of SA. Claimed saving of the current battery 47million and the new extra one will provide a similar benefit, proportionately. There are also about 3 other battery systems in SA. . Morrissons exceptionally stupid/frivolous comment s about it  shows factless political opportunism. Tesla said If it doesn't work, You don't have to pay for it. Now they are installing more having   proven first hand that it does. Perhaps others now might give some thought to doing the same.  Nev

 

What exeptionally stupid/frivolous comments about the battery did Morrissons make?

 

 

[jetjr]

Joked big battery was like the big banana

 

I will guarantee Tesla would not have signed up or promised anything without escape clauses or metrics they could  meet easily

 

Don't think the cost has ever been released has it?

 

 

[octave]

What exeptionally stupid/frivolous comments about the battery did Morrissons 

 

https://www.afr.com/politics/scott-morrison-mocks-sas-big-battery-as-like-the-big-banana-20170727-gxjqbz

 

 

[turboplanner]

https://www.afr.com/politics/scott-morrison-mocks-sas-big-battery-as-like-the-big-banana-20170727-gxjqbz

 

fades into nothing

 

 

[octave]

Joked big battery was like the big banana

 

I will guarantee Tesla would not have signed up or promised anything without escape clauses or metrics they could  meet easily

 

Don't think the cost has ever been released has it?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/reneweconomy.com.au/tesla-big-battery-delivered-a-22-million-profit-in-2018-2018/amp/

 

I would assume that as these batteries are being built all around the world from China to the US to Europe there must  be some benefit

 

https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/south-australias-big-battery-

 

slashes-40m-from-grid-control-costs-in-first-year-20181205-h18ql1

 

 

[turboplanner]

That is NOT the main point of the battery. It is used to stabilise the network as was well explained by the New LIBERAL leader of SA. Claimed saving of the current battery 47million and the new extra one will provide a similar benefit, proportionately. There are also about 3 other battery systems in SA. . Morrissons exceptionally stupid/frivolous comment s about it  shows factless political opportunism. Tesla said If it doesn't work, You don't have to pay for it. Now they are installing more having   proven first hand that it does. Perhaps others now might give some thought to doing the same.  Nev

 

The Prime Minister is quoted by a Renew Economy Journalist (Cessna) as saying:

 

"I mean by all means have the world's biggest battery, have the world's biggest banana, have the world's biggest prawn like we have on the roadside around the country, but that is not solving the problem."

 

[the problem being we no longer have enough power GENERATION to prevent blackouts.

 

Explanation to anyone who thinks these were stupid/frivolous comments showing factless political opportunity: A battery is NOT A GENERATOR]

 

So a kangaroo or two loose in the top paddock.

 

The journalist went on to explain that a lightning strike knocked out two transmission lines, cutting power in NSW and Victoria, but SA operated with power supplied by the Big Battery until "its local grid was 'synchronised' with Victoria's ABOUT 25 MINUTES AFTER THE OUTAGE."

 

So far so good; if the outage had exceeded an hour it might have been another story, so a short window of support.

 

SA claim $40 million savings in the first year, Facthunter claims a handy boost to $47 million, neither refer to any cost.

 

The Journalist who appears to have impressed some of our posters went on to say "Morrison's Big Banana  wasn't able to lift a finger to help customers in NSW."

 

and (referring to the Big Battery)

 

"It can do things that cannot be matched by coal, gas or hydro generators, or even Big Bananas."

 

 

[turboplanner]

An the fire retardant doesn't? A small amount of salt water wont do any lasting damage.

 

Five years ago ago I sat and watched as the fire front ran along the overgrown roadside vegetation. It was a long time before the paddocks burned. This was also the case in the Wangary fires a decade earlier when the fire ran at upto 60km/hr. I South Australian CFS stats show that about 50% of fires start on roadsides. Thus it follows that many fires could be prevented by simply management of the roadsides. It used to happen but the we had a green revolution.

 

But with a month of media beating up  the drought, fires, first in the US then on the east coast, the climate extinction people, 11,000 scientists (of which only about 240 hold qualifications in anything remotely climate related) saying we are all doomed it is little wonder the crazies are out in force lighting fires.

 

End of this rant

 

Bev McArthur Upper House Member For Western Victoria has been letting fly in the Parliament

 

about roadsides; in particular how drought affected farmers were prevented from grazing roadsides and the heavy growth we have to deal with this summer. If you search for her on FB you’ll see what she’s been saying and she’s not finished yet.

 

 

[kgwilson]

.....and no hot Australian summers.

 

The UK is at 51 to 58 deg North so gets much less sun than Australia which sits between 11 & 43 deg South & much less intensity so that stat was pretty impressive even if it was on a clear day in late Spring.

 

 

[planedriver]

The UK is at 51 to 58 deg North so gets much less sun than Australia which sits between 11 & 43 deg South & much less intensity so that stat was pretty impressive even if it was on a clear day in late Spring.

 

On a recent trip to the UK, I was amazed at how many farms which at one time produced food for the populous, were now filled with rows and rows of solar panels and nothing else, because it was in their financial interest to do so. Not sure what subsidies they get from the government, but obviously they are now more reliant on the fact that a far larger quantity of food has to now be imported to cover the shortfall, but presumably they now have more power to process and cook what they can't produce themselves. It's a complex situation which is way beyond my brains.

 

 

[onetrack]

If they had a bit of intelligence, they could've mounted the solar arrays on wasteland and rocky outcrops, and thus save their good farmland for food production.

 

It is getting into the scary realm when you have to rely on another country to produce a fair percentage of your basic foodstuffs.

 

This is just one of the reasons I refuse to buy any Asian-produced food - it's not only the food quality angle, it's the hygiene angle, and the personal desire to not become reliant on Asian nations for our food.

 

 

[Thruster88]

Bev McArthur Upper House Member For Western Victoria has been letting fly in the Parliament

 

about roadsides; in particular how drought affected farmers were prevented from grazing roadsides and the heavy growth we have to deal with this summer. If you search for her on FB you’ll see what she’s been saying and she’s not finished yet.

 

Grazing animals on the roadside is a PITA for motorists and especially trucks. My roadtrain used to burn an extra 1.5 litres every time I had to slow to 10kph and get back up to speed. Bad drovers have been known to leave a few black cows out at night, they are almost impossible to see, hit one in a car or 4x4 and it can be all over.

 

 

[Litespeed]

If that was the case why then does the International Energy Agency (a UN body) report in its latest World Energy Report observe that "Construction starts for new nuclear power plants rose by 50% in 2018 , none of which were in China " and shows that final investment decisions for nuclear power plants increased in 2018 over 2017 (the highest since 2015).

 

It also said " Nuclear power investment edged up as new grid-connected plants in 2018 grew threefold, 80% of them in China. Construction starts rose to 6 GW none of which were in China, but were much lower than capacity additions"

 

These investments are not solely funded by central governments.

 

It is also clear from the report that without government support and policies worldwide renewable would not be such a large part of the energy generation sector.

 

Which begs the question "If governments should not pick winners, why favour subsidies for one industry sector over another"

 

 As the report stated without substantial support and policy assistance they will not exist.

 

A lot of the so called claimed starts are now been put on slow mode. Any new plant will still have massive support and not required to internalise all costs. That is the model they use.

 

Allowing any nuclear is a pronuclear stance and picks it as the winner for 40-50 years, the level of support is fundamental. It can never be removed as economics change. Prices and support are baked in.

 

That is picking a winner and providing huge amounts of real and potential treasure from the public.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Grazing animals on the roadside is a PITA for motorists and especially trucks. My roadtrain used to burn an extra 1.5 litres every time I had to slow to 10kph and get back up to speed. Bad drovers have been known to leave a few black cows out at night, they are almost impossible to see, hit one in a car or 4x4 and it can be all over.

 

Just think if you had a Cummins 210!

 

 

[spacesailor]

If I were to put Solar on my roof, It would take 10 years to pay it off. Life of said panel guaranteed 10 year.

 

Then dispose of the old & buy new.

 

NOT very economical, or have I missed something ?.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

If I were to put Solar on my roof, It would take 10 years to pay it off. Life of said panel guaranteed 10 year.

 

Then dispose of the old & buy new.

 

NOT very economical, or have I missed something ?.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

If I were to put Solar on my roof, It would take 10 years to pay it off. Life of said panel guaranteed 10 year.

 

Then dispose of the old & buy new.

 

NOT very economical, or have I missed something ?.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

If I were to put Solar on my roof, It would take 10 years to pay it off. Life of said panel guaranteed 10 year.

 

Then dispose of the old & buy new.

 

NOT very economical, or have I missed something ?.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Litespeed]

Comments on individual crop selections and how they are suite to Australia doesn't follow facts, the concept that cotton (or any other crop) should be legislated out of production is a road to regional devastation. Picking winners - which is exactly what you are proposing- has never worked and resulted in some of the most distorted and financially crippling periods in Agricultural history

 

 

 

Mate, I never said make it illegal, I said industry policy should aim to suit the best possible use of the limited water and resources we have. Governments, business bodies, farmers federation all pick winners and losers when they lobby. Governments all do it everytime a decision on anything is made. When policies are made, laws, regulations, political decisions and trade deals. All involve a opportunity cost.

 

If x amount of water can only be used then it is governments responsibility to guide how that water is priced and used. IF the best bang per litre for the overall community, environment and economy is sought- then cotton is a poor use.

 

Picking winners when doing our water policy and esp the Murray Darling system is a big cause of the problem we are seeing- they had a very big opportunity to guide the market and become more sustainable but choose a capitalist money grab version instead. Stupidity in making decisions does not mean make none but choose wisely.

 

Dairy, Nuts, Lucerne and many others use similar water and some even more. Most use water highly efficiently contrary to whats sold in the media.

 

Agreed and as a policy we should not encourage nuts trees like almonds, the long term water use is extreme and drought can wipe them out for years. Look at California, huge amounts of water they can not afford is going to almonds and the rest of  agriculture , the populace and environment suffer greatly. That is the long term experience. 

 

There is no other annual crop that returns the same to the producers and is highly exported generating jobs and income to operate the rest of their farms and communities

 

Tell that to other farmers who do not have access to water downstream and whole communities.  If you are saying a export fibre crop is better than food crops consumed here, you need to think about carefully. The economic and flow of benefit is much better for the food side. More labour and output stays local and generates jobs.

 

As a export crop cotton is reliant on mass imports of energy, machinery, chemicals, seed development (BT Cotton)- this inputs are mostly just imports and even when made here are from imported parts and capital. The more you import to run a export industry- you impoverish local opportunities over foreign ones. The benefits are felt by few and the real cost to others who farm or use the rivers is great.

 

 

[Butch]

Well I may as well join in for a Rant!

 

In my lifetime (61 years) the following DOOMSDAY predictions have been made.

 

• We will not have enough petroleum to last the next ten years. Didn't happen!
   
  
• There's a hole in the ozone layer ( we will be fried like prawns on the BBQ ) Didn't happen!
   
  
• Climate change ( Debatable)
   
  

 

But for the people with the glass half full mentality !

 

• Lifespan has increased by probably 15 years ( a lot of my Dad's mates dropped dead of a heart attack in their 50's )
   
  
• Vaccinations have almost eliminated most fatal diseases
   
  
• Most Australians living standards are the highest on record
   
  
• Australia is the safest it has ever been ( even if the media tries to make out it isn't )
   
  
• We haven't had a World War for 74 years
   
  
• We have freedom of speech and the rite to have a democratic vote  ( see Hong Kong )
   
  

 

The old I'm doing it for the grandkids is BS!

 

If your fair dinkum do the following

 

• Get a bike ( pollution free )
   
  
• Turn off your heating or cooling or go off the grid
   
  
• Stop flying your aircraft (waste of fuel )
   
  
• Grow your own vegies
   
  
• Get a vasectomy (the world is over populated )
   
  
• Stop eating lentils ( to much methane )
   
  
• where do I stop?
   
  

 

I think we all need to stop being political hypocrites !

 

Maybe we need another world war to give us something to really worry about !  

 

Or maybe we have it too easy and don't appreciate how lucky we are.

 

END OF RANT !

 

 

 

[Litespeed]

Comments on individual crop selections and how they are suite to Australia doesn't follow facts, the concept that cotton (or any other crop) should be legislated out of production is a road to regional devastation. Picking winners - which is exactly what you are proposing- has never worked and resulted in some of the most distorted and financially crippling periods in Agricultural history

 

Dairy, Nuts, Lucerne and many others use similar water and some even more. Most use water highly efficiently contrary to whats sold in the media.

 

There is no other annual crop that returns the same to the producers and is highly exported generating jobs and income to operate the rest of their farms and communities

 

As far as pesticide use goes Id have thought they now would be lower per ha than many food crops found in your basket

 

Lots of uninformed opinions without much backing.

 

 

 

Also contrary to many thoughts and current drought, Australia has plenty of fresh water .society has chosen to send it down and out the end of a major river into the ocean, largely benefiting one state.

 

Models and mindsets fixed on maintaining fresh lakes and constantly flowing rivers in seawater areas is costing dearly, mostly only seen when the country doesn't have the water to spare -like now

 

So you are suggesting that all the water resources should be for farming only or what mining?

 

You do know that nature needs water to exist?

 

What right do some at the top of a system have over everyone further down? And the communities that use those lakes of potable water, what about the wetlands?

 

Constantly flowing rivers are not the enemy of farmers, when they don't flow the environment and local economy collapse. How do you think SA would get water to drink, or should they desal so a farmer can plant cotton?

 

Your attitude about water says a lot about your view. 

 

 

 

Re pumped hydro, few admit or understand that every time you convert energy from one state to another, around 20% is lost. Round trip efficiencies of pumped hydro are pretty awful, ie you get back bit over half the power you put in let alone very expensive maintenance costs. That makes the energy conserved more than double the price of the method used to generate it in the first place.

 

Also power must be generated close to where its used, transmission losses also take a big chunk of capital and energy.

 

I have never promoted pumped hydro as a big solution but merely as a way to capture energy that would be a total loss.