facthunter Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Those costs seem excessive so perhaps a less ambitious effort would be suitable. I can't see it's a majority of people issue. You are leaving a minority with out a means of connection, which the rules require.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Those costs seem excessive so perhaps a less ambitious effort would be suitable. I can't see it's a majority of people issue. You are leaving a minority with out a means of connection, which the rules require.. Nev Without a "means of connection" how does one legally pilot an aircraft with regards to NAIPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 I have no idea. Perhaps some could get someone else to do it for them. I just don't go along with "Most are happy" so the rest don't matter. Lots of people can shut down the internet so do we just come to a stop when your computer goes nuts. or your swipe card doesn't work.? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Here is my reply to that email regarding the demise of the magazine. I didn't get a reply but the survey did come out soon after: Hi, First as many have said, Mark is missed. He was such an enthusiastic contributer to the magazine. And prolific. On those grounds alone I can understand that the magazine is in trouble. Financially, I'm not so sure it's doomed. I've always thought it was quite a miracle that it cost $4 an issue. However, even some newspapers cost that much nowadays. Now I see it was subsidised. A quick look at my calculator shows that the figures give a break even of $10.28 (or $10 and 2/7 because it's an android phone!) . Now my other two favourite magazines- The Economist and Retro Gamer are about $12 each. And The Economist is weekly! I don't buy that one weekly though. I can predict some people would be outraged by such a price increase. I've never understood this attitude from people with such an expensive hobby. But here's a couple of ideas. One, poll the current subscribers about an increase to $10.28 per issue. Two poll to see if they would accept a smaller increase and do the sums for general distribution to newsagents to increase membership. Show quoted text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Without a "means of connection" how does one legally pilot an aircraft with regards to NAIPS. Refer ERSA for alternatives to NAIPS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 As far as I'm concerned m&m have reaped what they have sown. They removed the magazine from being included in the membership fee WITHOUT dropping one single cent from the fee. Then wanted people to pay outright for the magazine. Effectively double dipping......on the sly... I swore I would not pay for the magazine, and that still stands. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 membership fees went up - end of story, if they had just raised fees would that have been OK? All members were paying for magazine and still are. Magazine costing us all a fortune, only maintained because of vocal members who somehow thought it was free before At $10 per copy subsidisation "included in membership" today - drop it! At some point paper communications has to stop and email become acceptable main form of communication. Many larger places still offer paper at extra cost. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 You have made your opinion quite clear, but have not in any way addressed my concerns. I'm sure the cost could be reduced if you worked at it.. IF your aim is to get rid if i,t then you don't bother. If paper stops ,how is Email the MAIN form of communication?It would be the ONLY form . Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 How about a posted newsletter/circular/update at the same frequency for a cost per letter, maybe $4 per mail out, full cost recovery from those that want/need it? Magazine with articles, advertisement etc online Or simply cost recovery from those who want paper magazine $10.86 ea copy, potentially higher as subscribers drop off Rest of membership gets $60+/yr off membership fee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 The buy back from the newsagents of unsold copies (Big loss) and the lack of advertising revenue (allegedly) was a big factor. . You could probably "share" a production with other aviation Bodies if you didn't get up their noses so much. . Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 The bottom line is, what is a newsletter or club magazine trying to disseminate? Club news? General news? Educational articles? Advertising from businesses seeking sales from club members? The first is the relevant information to club members. The second is available anywhere, we live in the "news overdose" age. The third is also readily available to those who seek to enlighten themselves. The fourth is in our face almost daily, as businesses seek every avenue to keep their products foremost in our minds. This is not the 1920's, where communication was slow, the dissemination of knowledge was slow and limited, and people were desperate to find out what was going on. How many glossy magazines get glanced at as soon as they arrive, a couple of pages looked at, maybe one or two articles read - then the magazine is discarded to a magazine holder where it languishes for weeks or months before it's binned? I've been in clubs where the club magazine was a desperate effort to try and find someone to write up stories and articles of interest, and a fairly substantial number of club members would probably not read much of the newsletter at all, apart from reading about important dates, events and news on internal happenings in the club. Club or organisation glossy magazines are a waste of time, particularly where the numbers are relatively small. A simple B&W printed newsletter is all that is needed, giving out information simply on relevant club news. The big glossy magazines aimed at millions of readers, have fallen by the wayside in the last few years, decimated like a double-barrel shotgun blast in a flight of low-level ducks. The carnage in the glossy magazine field is continuing, and there is no sign it will abate anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 THEY said books would disappear too, and that's not happening . A good magazine that is relevant is read from cover to cover and kept as a reference for facts and dates of oncoming events for the "active" organisation. Easy to "show" someone else too and discuss rather than shove a mobile phone under their eyes for a few seconds. They don't command the market they used to or the classifieds. Baby doesn't have to go out with the bathwater. Perhaps we make all CARDS go " none real" too, to save money and be with it. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBoy1960 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 The buy back from the newsagents of unsold copies (Big loss) and the lack of advertising revenue (allegedly) was a big factor. . You could probably "share" a production with other aviation Bodies if you didn't get up their noses so much. . Nev nobody buys back any magazines from newsagents. The newsagents cuts off the barcode which is printed on the cover and staples these together once per month, and the number of barcodes gets reported as unsold magazines. An example would be, newsagents got 10 copies of the magazine. At the end of the month if there were five they would cut off the barcode and keep these and the rest of the magazine goes into the trash for recycling. About three months later once everything been tallied up you would get a check for what has been sold. The newsagents would send a report back online showing how many barcodes they had at the end of the month when the new issue had hit the stands and we needed to keep these barcode records for three months before they were thrown out, that way if there was ever need to audit newsagents the distribution companies could come around to make sure they weren't getting cheated. Most magazines now cost (to produce) more than double the selling price in the newsagents and the only opportunity to make any money is by selling the advertising. This is why magazines are closing at an alarming rate and newsagents following shortly behind. I went into a newsagents the other day to buy a card for Father's Day to give to my son from his newborn daughter and I was surprised that probably only 2% of the whole floor area was taken up by magazines and nearly all of these were women's magazines. All of the specialty magazines for shooting, camping, aviation and everything else were all but gone and then the whole store there was only about 3 m of shelf space allocated to magazines 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketShip Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Yep do away with the printed magazine and do an online magazine. Not to follow how the magazine was, but a properly put together online magazine. It is all going that way so do it now and get on with life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Flyboy, Buy back or not be paid for when unsold is the same. The expense of printing and distribution and disposal comes as a COST and it's COSTS we are talking about.. The quoted costs always seem high by comparison with comparable products I'm aware of. . Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If the magazine is relegated to an on-line only publication (assuming a similar format to now) the only costs that disappear are printing and distribution. Of the total cost of $216,000.00 per year how much is involved in getting stories and articles, editing and setup and publishing and how much advertising revenue is there to offset these costs? Why not reduce the number of copies per year to say bi monthly. It is only in the last few years that we have had 12 copies per year. It used to be 10 with nothing in December/January. If there were 6 copies at $12.00 per edition that's only $72.00 a year. I still like to read a magazine. I sit in front of a screen too much now. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_galaga Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 If the magazine is relegated to an on-line only publication (assuming a similar format to now) the only costs that disappear are printing and distribution. Of the total cost of $216,000.00 per year how much is involved in getting stories and articles, editing and setup and publishing and how much advertising revenue is there to offset these costs? Why not reduce the number of copies per year to say bi monthly. It is only in the last few years that we have had 12 copies per year. It used to be 10 with nothing in December/January. If there were 6 copies at $12.00 per edition that's only $72.00 a year. I still like to read a magazine. I sit in front of a screen too much now. Good idea. I hadn't even thought of bi-monthly. That would be often enough ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 "The buy back from the newsagents of unsold copies (Big loss) " I couldn't locate a copy in my neighborhood or in the big city mall. So did without & still do, even thou my interest is undiminished. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Everyone loves the magazine, its just who pays for it The PAPER part of the magazine was/is costing ~ $140K per year Anything you do to reduce print numbers, ie less editions etc raises cost per issue A Biannual magazine information would not be that relevant, late and have to be done with such a lead time as to not much use. Still need frequent newsletter, people who want paper versions can pay the actual cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 How did we go from two monthly to twice a year? The main effort is in producing the formatted thing for on line. For the few who would like a hard copy just printing and posting isn't going to change the world . Have a proper costing of that and make it available at the "real" cost to those who are not on line or want a copy. on ordinary paper. I can't believe that's not possible. .. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 As presented earlier in this topic, presently costs $72 K to produce the content and run online then $140K per year for the paper copies going to 1750 members Id expect ways to reduce cost of paper has been investigated, everyone wants to keep it going. Printers have minimum run costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 I'd expect (whatever) What does "expect" mean. ? EVERYONE wants to keep it going . Really? Sorry, but I see little evidence of that so far. I'm pretty sure they have an "internal use" copier. They are very cheap( relatively) these days . Making it every TWO months halves the cost. Cut the paper quality and save much more. The FACT IS plenty of smaller organisations are still posting printed stuff AND doing it on line as well. Reading from screens isn't much good for your back or your eyes, and as I've said you can get problems with reception etc that cuts you off for considerable periods. We have the worst internet of any comparable country. Not the best time to be making it compulsory. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 It means I trust RAA looked hard at how to keep it going cost effectively - raising fees to cover it isn't a fun decision to make Printng for thousands of pages and the people to do it and get into envelopes and post is far from cheap - reckon this was all outlined at some stage too regarding renewals and rego. I don't have an issue with doing that so long as those who require it pay for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 As presented earlier in this topic, presently costs $72 K to produce the content and run online then $140K per year for the paper copies going to 1750 members Id expect ways to reduce cost of paper has been investigated, everyone wants to keep it going. Printers have minimum run costs. Where did you get the $72k to produce & run on line from? Total cost is $216k less subscriptions received of $72k meaning total cost to RAA of $144k. This is the total cost of getting stories and articles, editing, publishing and setup for on line, plus printing and distribution. The costs relating to just getting the publication to an on line situation has not been provided. I asked for this information in my email to the CEO but have not received a response so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 The glossy Ipad reference is a bit flippant isn't it Jet. ? It is about the costs etc relating to glossy covers etc. to what I consider a real issue not just fun. for some. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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