RAA pilots will require CASA medical certificate under part 103?

[old man emu]

I wonder if the Instructor in that incident where the first lesson student had to land the plane had any forewarning that of the medical incident that would happen during that flight?

 

Was it just a case of "You never know when your number will come up"?

 

 

[turboplanner]

I wonder if the Instructor in that incident where the first lesson student had to land the plane had any forewarning that of the medical incident that would happen during that flight?

 

Was it just a case of "You never know when your number will come up"?

 

That's similar to what I was saying, and only the instructor has the answer to that, however I wouldn't go on a vendetta against the instructor. There is a clear weakness with self-reporting under the CASA system, but rather than go up several scales to a Class 2, I think, for 600 KG MTOW, the long established motor racing benchmark of a series of passes in nominated tests would both match what happens now with self- reporting (if the pilot is disclosing fully) i.e. no more stringent than what is supposed to be happening now, eliminate failure to declare, or false statements, and most importantly, not throw unreasonable liability on to the Doctor (since he's simply noting a pass/fail on standard tests).

 

 

[kasper]

Why do people perceive a need greater than standard motor vehicle?   Serious question.  

 

If if you can take a ton of steel at 60kph+ within a couple of metres of pedestrians in a car why set higher limits for outside control airspace where risk is mostly to you and your 1 passenger? 

 

So on top of the issue that any medical is an on the day test I really do do not see the benefit to actual risk that higher limits bring. 

 

 

[turboplanner]

Why do people perceive a need greater than standard motor vehicle?   Serious question.  

 

If if you can take a ton of steel at 60kph+ within a couple of metres of pedestrians in a car why set higher limits for outside control airspace where risk is mostly to you and your 1 passenger? 

 

So on top of the issue that any medical is an on the day test I really do do not see the benefit to actual risk that higher limits bring. 

 

That question needs to be asked of people with medical qualifications and people who have an understanding of the existing regulations and each complex variation, so probably a DAME and an Aviation Lawyer working together.

 

Just throwing it open of a forum is likely to result in one of the circular, but useless arguments that just confuse more people.

 

For example, in a recent discussion someone queried the need for colour blindness tests, citing traffic lights where everyone knows the top one is red and the bottom one is green. When I pointed out that you needed to be able to identify whether the tower was giving you a red or a green (and there would be no traffic light stack), I think you were one of the responders who gave an example or a work-around. HOWEVER, and this is my point, I have no idea whether that was the only time colour becomes important, and most likely it is not; the various instrument gauges being a good example, and if someone then says: "well you can quickly become familiar with where the red sectors are or where the red and where the green lights are" that fails as soon as you get in another aicraft, or as an instructor did to me not so long ago, told me to land a 172 at the turn on to final from the right seat, where I only had limited vision of a layout I'd never flown before. 

 

 

[Jaba-who]

That's similar to what I was saying, and only the instructor has the answer to that, however I wouldn't go on a vendetta against the instructor. There is a clear weakness with self-reporting under the CASA system, but rather than go up several scales to a Class 2, I think, for 600 KG MTOW, the long established motor racing benchmark of a series of passes in nominated tests would both match what happens now with self- reporting (if the pilot is disclosing fully) i.e. no more stringent than what is supposed to be happening now, eliminate failure to declare, or false statements, and most importantly, not throw unreasonable liability on to the Doctor (since he's simply noting a pass/fail on standard tests).

 

 

 

To cite the case of the instructor in the incident. 

 

It turns out he has a benign tumour in a location where frequently nothing is findable on simple “in-the-consulting-room-testing”.  Sure it’s there on a CT or MRI but you don’t send people for those when they have nothing to find and no history. Sometimes there are things to find but often not. Even in retrospect patients will tell you they had no discernable  signs or symptoms. 

 

The tumour just quietly sits there and gradually enlarges. Typically some small event happens in the tumour ( often a blood vessel gets blocked or compressed) and this causes a bit of local tissue swelling and that sudden swelling causes a pressure effect and a seizure happens “out of the blue”. 

 

But it that’s the same for a number of rare things but you have to remember that by far and away the most common cause of medical incapacitation is food poisoning from eating something within hours of the flight and that is never ever going to be found in a medical conducted way before the flight. 

 

 

[facthunter]

There's a difference between meeting certain standards and self declaring you do. It's not just a matter of HOLDING a driver's licence either. IF you cover up a condition you wont get an easy ride if the excrement hits the fan. After a certain age or having some certain conditions your doctor gets involved . That's how it should be..  It's well documented that under high stress conditions your heart rate can go to figures like 160 plus. If you heart is weak  or you have blocked arteries you might just die in flight  or after landing . Properly treated and monitored people are generally lower risk than the" I've never been near a doctor in my life" types .Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

 

But it that’s the same for a number of rare things but you have to remember that by far and away the most common cause of medical incapacitation is food poisoning from eating something within hours of the flight and that is never ever going to be found in a medical conducted way before the flight. 

 

I wonder if being prone to airsickness is a pre-existing medical condition that would preclude PIC duties.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

My niece got airsick from a brief and very staid flight in smooth air. After being helped out on landing, she went to bed for 3 days.  I reckon this constitutes a pre-existing medical condition.

 

Her grandfather tried out as a tail-gunner in a Catalina in 1944 but he got so airsick that he  was turned into an armourer, so he spent the war reloading planes with bombs and bullets.

 

There is a bit in common between airsickness and food-poisoning... in stone-age times, if the cave started to move around, your brain could decide that you had eaten something poisonous and get you to throw up.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

There's a difference between meeting certain standards and self declaring you do. It's not just a matter of HOLDING a driver's licence either. IF you cover up a condition you wont get an easy ride if the excrement hits the fan. After a certain age or having some certain conditions your doctor gets involved . That's how it should be..  It's well documented that under high stress conditions your heart rate can go to figures like 160 plus. If you heart is weak  or you have blocked arteries you might just die in flight  or after landing . Properly treated and monitored people are generally lower risk than the" I've never been near a doctor in my life" types .Nev

 

Actually that’s not true at all and has been proven to be not true and is why USA and Britain have moved away from formal medicals. Also proved to be untrue by our own RAA system of self certification. 

 

 

Generally, declaring you are fit has proved itself to be exactly the same as meeting the standard.  

 

There are just not planes in USA , Britain or  RAAus pilots dropping out of the sky from medical incapacitation. Yet we know that many RAAus pilots are in RAAus because they have medical issues and can’t get CASA type medicals. ( and often had them for long periods ) 

 

 

 

[circuitsun]

I hope all who voted for (& gave their proxies) to M&M to allow the take over of RAA from a member organisation are happy with the direction they have taken it.  I have serious concerns for the future of RAA but I continue to see some still happy in their “private place” as unbelievable as it may be.

 

Two options :  Sit back and watch (will be too late soon)

 

         OR          Take back control (although I don’t see much action happening in that area)

 

Yes Frank, I was one of those sad sac's you refer to, I even thought m&m were doing a great job !  Learn' t otherwise, racked my brain for ways of enlightening membership to the real picture,  but it appears ars.......es like then know how to manipulate apathy very effectively,  & I have not yet come up with any answers that would affect the status quo.  Very depressing.  I am certainly not alone in my regret for allowing these pricks to hijack what was, a great movement.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Only one option.

 

LEAVE

 

If there's NO members there's No money for those rich CEO's.

 

We definitely need a second chance. No mini casa will give us what we need.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[walrus]

Airsickness will stop after acclimatisation. Ask any DAME, its quite common when you start aerobatics.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

Airsickness will stop after acclimatisation. Ask any DAME, its quite common when you start aerobatics.

 

Ah. Well...   maybe

 

I have known a couple of student pilots who gave away training because of intractable air sickness. One in fixed wings,  one in helicopters. Both tried everything they could find to stop it and both got  up to “double figure” hours with an instructor before deciding to give it away. Neither was allowed to go solo by the schools because of the issue. 

 

 

[turboplanner]

I had to deal with it with passengers in boats and had good success in telling them to keep their eyes up to the horizon so they couldn’t see any part of the boat. Their bodies quickly adjusted to what their eyes were seeing.

 

Not so clear cut in an aircraft because we want to look down, but better than being fixated on the instrument panel, cowl or seatback.