VH to Raaus

[K5054]

Can I change an aircraft that is VH rego to raaus rego. The mauw is 680 kg. Is there way around this? And when the new weights for raaus come in, will that help?

 

 

[jetjr]

Yes you can

 

not currently at MAUW 680kg, can look to reduce aircraft weight but theres regulations on minimum usable load.

 

Stall speed is key limitation, must be under 45kts with flaps.

 

Proposed regulations will fix weight issue but stall speed remains at this stage and you will still need LAME maintenance if in the heavier weight group

 

 

[K5054]

That might be my downfall then. Bugger. Stalls at 51 at mauw

 

 

[440032]

Out of interest, what would be the main attractions for you K5054 of doing so, if you could?

 

1. No medical required. (tick).

 

2.

 

3.

 

etc

 

 

[K5054]

Cheaper maintenance, there would be certain things I could do myself. Oil changes etc. An L2 is cheaper than LAME. I could do my own weight and balance etc

 

 

[440032]

I gather then that you didn't build your Spitfire? You can still do your oil changes and a whole lot more under CASA Schedule 8 pilot permitted maintenance.

 

For me, my CASA medical cost is way wayyyyy cheaper than two years of membership and aircraft registration, so it's VH for me.

 

 

[K5054]

Oh it’s not for the Spitfire, I’m looking at another purchase. 

 

 

[jetjr]

Do some searching as 51kts at 680 may drop closer to 45 at 600kg?

 

Demonstrated stall speed is declared by owner or builder in RAA in amateur built category, (would need some backing from manufacturer)

 

You can also modify aircraft under RAA to lower stall if you can

 

Will not be self maintained under new 601-750kg category AND 45kts stall still applies

 

 

[K5054]

Yes it might lose 6 kts at 600kg. Not sure how to drop that much weight though, unless it’s simply restricted to that. 

 

 

[jetjr]

whats the empty weight?

 

Theres a mimimum useful load - not sure on the number, 100kg??

 

 

[K5054]

Empty is about 420kg. Will be something like that. I haven’t got all the details yet

 

 

[KRviator]

whats the empty weight?

 

Theres a mimimum useful load - not sure on the number, 100kg??

 

Only sometimes. If it is amateur-built, the payload formula specified in CAO 95-55 does not apply. 

 

 

[RFguy]

I'm considering a J430 conversion to raaus...after conversion to J230 ( remove rear sears, belts), depending on empty weight the stall dirty drops to ~40-41 kts (at 600kg)

[Thruster88]

I'm considering a J430 conversion to raaus...after conversion to J230 ( remove rear sears, belts), depending on empty weight the stall dirty drops to ~40-41 kts (at 600kg)

Glen, why not continue your training (flyoz) to RPL or PPL and get more useful load now plus controlled airspace.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Thruster88

[RFguy]

Glen, why not continue your training to RPL or PPL and get more useful load now plus controlled airspace.

Hi Stuart. You are right about I am pushed on 600kg MTOW limitations for some of my activities.... hence the larger plane to start with....

I fully intend to get the RPL and PPL... I have to to fly CTA/ CTZ

I want to be able to maintain and service my own plane , which I can as an L1, or L2 RAAus.

For modifications to a 24-, that needs a sign off by a authorized person. Like if I want to fill the engine bay with sensors and a hybrid fuel injection/carby setup, or some other hybrid jet/piston crazy idea.

For modifications to a VH experimental, that needs similar sign off BUT I cant do my own maintenance. Need to be a LAME, or have a friendly LAME that will sign off on my maintenance.... yes I guess that is possible.

The most flexibility would be as an 19- builder. essentially, carte blanche.....

The J430 can of course be transferred between VH and RA. If I can solve the maintenance issue of VH, then a VHexp offers necessary flexibility.

[Thruster88]

You might have to build a 430 to get the freedom you want.

[facthunter]

I think you are dreaming to get a 230 stall speed at 40-41` knots. in reality. Nev

[RFguy]

Jab hit is not cheap really, compared to a RV kit which are actually very good value for money.

I think you are dreaming to get a 230 stall speed at 40-41` knots. in reality. Nev

Hi Nev. mmmm Well, the spec for the 230D aircraft in the brochure is 40 kts dirty , and in their website recent 230 POH it has 42 kts .

So, OK let's call it 42 kts.... ICAO std MTOW

 

J170D has spec of 40 kts (same main wing, same MTOW). slightly different tailplane I think.

[facthunter]

Not doubting your quoted speeds. Have we got some other owners experiences of a good threshold speed at 600 Kgs? Nev

[RFguy]

There's been plenty of reports here and there. And ya know, that's actually a really hard one to nail down I think because of individuals AoA at that time, as much as weight, and also the amount of inertia they're still carrying if the airspeed if they are in the process of 'still slowing down' if that makes sense (from turning inertia into a reduction in descent rate) . its a highly variable set of scenarios at the threshold I think (from my inexperience LOL) . Maybe other owners might have some experiences of the minimum speed the thing wants to float down the runway with engine idle. I dunno many variables. Of course it will come down without any thrust .

 

And I also think the exact spec of 'engine idle' seems to vary ALOT from pilot to pilot. a small amount of thrust in that configuration can make a fair difference.

[facthunter]

Normally I'm a great fan of NOT changing much in the last 80 feet or so with U/L's especially if you are a low hours pilot.. IF she's starting to fall out of the sky, Power is in order and necessary, for a SAVE.. A rapid speed bleed type approach is more critical than I normally like and One could argue there's probably a LAG in the indication. but at that stage who's looking at the ASI when you are executing a flare? Quite a few 230 owners I have known pull up better on short strips by switching the engine off as they can float where excess speed is carried and the idle is a bit fast and they are not generally regarded as a short field plane in the general sense.. Also as I've mention previously they are a plane one should fly on the numbers. . Don't come in high and hot. Be on profile and speeds in the circuit .Nev

[RFguy]

Yeah the rapid speed bleed requires judgement and experience to do well. I think my glide approaches are certainly like that.

 

Usually if the final is looking good, in the late final I will set power to a bit above idle, maybe 20% to control descent rate and give me a bit more authority. When flare done and float 'established', I drop power to idle and down it comes. I still need to work on gradually giving it a bit more stick back as it comes down to get the nose up a bit more for longer after mains contact. For a nil wind , anyway....

 

The 230 (and 170D) are high aspect wings. quite high.... I suspect that the induced drag on these high aspect wings does not come up too much at low speeds, IE the induced drag does not ramp up quickly at low airspeeds, so the wing drag stays pretty low all the way to stall. What do you think of that for an idea ?

[SSCBD]

It all goes out the window with gusts, sink and turbulence from trees on smaller tight strips when you fly by yourself away from your home field that you learn on.

[facthunter]

You can only get a rapid speed bleed from a plane with fairly high drag usually helped by coming in Below usual approach path angle (Dragging it in) and then cutting power A plane with a lot of flap (Passenger Jets) has a lot of drag when they are all extended and normally approaches with quite a bit of power on especially with a strong headwind where the "in air" approach path is shallower. At the other end of the scale a gliding approach in a Tiger moth or a Thruster will have a rather short flare because they have a pretty ordinary L/D ratio. ie they're draggy and you don't have a lot of speed to wash off anyhow.. Nev

[Mewp]

For modifications to a 24-, that needs a sign off by a authorized person. Like if I want to fill the engine bay with sensors and a hybrid fuel injection/carby setup, or some other hybrid jet/piston crazy idea.

 

 

Type 24 aircraft cannot be modified in any way without a manufacturers Letter Of Approval and manufacturers seem very reluctant to provide them.