back to basics, after 20+ hours

[Guest skyfox49]

Got a strange problem here! i have done 3hr of circuit solo and are very close to training area solo.

 

However, my 'turns' are always out of balance. i can turn the plane anywhere i want, with the required precision.

 

Currently i turn with lots of rudder and oppisite alieron to compinsate for potential over-banked turn. This works! But its out of balance. I need to develop a new technique. Basically how do u turn?, in a flow chart, type, description?

 

 

[Flyer]

Hi Skyfox49

 

Firstly, what type of plane....warrior ? If so put your feet on the floor for a bit. you can fly a warrior with no rudder. not good but quite feasable.

 

Once a turn has commenced it is normal to hold off the bank with opposite aileron but dont keep squeezing the rudder on or you end up with crossed controls. This can lead to stalls at the wrong time if you're not aware of it.

 

The 2 times you want crossed controls are in a side or forward slip manouvere or in crosswind where aileron is used to hold the aircraft level and rudder is used to keep the nose pointing down the runway.

 

As for the rest, aileron and rudder into the turn to keep it balanced then opposite aileron, just enough to hold off the bank when you've banked enough and enough rudder whichever that may be to keep that ball centred.

 

Happy flying

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 

[poteroo]

Skyfox49

 

After 20 hrs you should be flying in reasonable balance.

 

Try this: you should be able to fly left and right 45 deg turns - rolling from one to the other after about a 90 deg turn - and keep the ball centered right thru the manoeuvre. If you can't -then get onto it and practise until you can.

 

cheers,

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

OK Skyfox49 you want back to basics so here it is. But firstly note that some aircraft show more or less of these effects. You will therefore have to modify your technique - in terms of amount of a certain input - for your aircraft.

 

Principles:

 

1. To turn you need to bank the aircraft;
    
    
   
2. You bank the aircraft with aileron;
    
    
   
3. Aileron input causes adverse yaw - the nose goes in the opposite direction to the direction of bank;
    
    
   
4. To counteract adverse yaw use rudder in the same direction as aileron;
    
   

 

So the flow chart is:

 

1. Check for traffic where you intend to go;
    
    
   
2. Input aileron sufficient for the rate of roll that you require;
    
    
   
3. AT THE SAME TIME use sufficient rudder to ensure that you are counteracting the adverse yaw. (What you should see looking over the nose is that the nose stays glued to a spot on the horizon as the aircraft rolls but does not yet turn around that spot);
    
    
   
4. As the angle of bank increases introduce back pressure on the stick to ensure that the aircraft does not begin descending (greater angle of bank = greater back pressure);
    
    
   
5. Once you reach the required angle of bank (AOB) reduce aileron input to neutral;
    
    
   
6. AT THE SAME TIME reduce rudder input to zero;
    
    
   
7. Hold required back pressure on the stick throughout the turn;
    
    
   
8. Counteract any tendency to increase bank with some SLIGHT "top" aileron. This will likely only be needed in steeper turns.
    
    
   
9. To cease turning apply aileron to roll level;
    
    
   
10. AT THE SAME TIME apply rudder to conteract the adverse yaw;
     
     
    
11. As the AOB reduces relax the back pressure on the stick;
     
     
    
12. As the a/c approaches wings level reduce the aileron input progressively to zero;
     
     
    
13. AT THE SAME TIME reduce the rudder input progressively to zero.
     
    

 

You must be able to do this in balance reliably and repeatedly. Go out to the training area and practise. Use only small control inputs at first and introduce them slowly and smoothly. Ensure that you practise turns in both directions so that you don't become "handed". Practise for only 40 minutes at a time. Come back and de-brief yourself and set limited goals for the next session. Try to fix one thing at a time.

 

The goal is simple: in all phases and stages of flight and in all manouevres (with the exception of slips) the ball must be centred at all times. If it's not then go and practise some more. This applies not just to turns but to all flight.

 

The trick is coordinating the aileron and rudder inputs - that's why they are called coordinated turns. If you are not yet up to training area solo then ask your instructor to take you out there and revise turns. Ask her or him to run through the turns brief with you before you go out there and explain to them your current difficulties.

 

This is a fundamental skill and your flying in future will be aided by working right now to fix this issue.

 

Please tell us how you go.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

As a follow up to the previous post. It might be useful for you to review some of the theory behind what you are doing.

 

This is a good site:

 

http://www.av8n.com/how/

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest RogerRammedJet]

Find a decent instructor!

 

Rog

 

 

[Flyer]

Roj

 

considering you're suggesting that Skyfox49 finds a decent instructor, could you perhaps suggest what to look for in an instructor / the qualities of a decent instructor ?

 

Regards

 

Phil

 

 

[poteroo]

Walks on water, flies without instruments, patience of a schoolteacher, memory of an elephant, eyes in-the-back-of-his-head, can detect half-a-ball out thru his bum, never exhibits fear, keeps smiling even when homicidal thoughts occur, snd remembers your name !

 

 

[Yenn]

Some people have different methods from Pelorus, myself included but you will not go wrong doing exactly as he says so I wouldn't want to muddy the waters for a very slight difference.

 

As for finding a good instructor, I think it is easier said than done. It takes time to make a judgment on an instructor, which costs money. Asking here was a good start, and asking any pilots you know and respect would also be a good way to go. It is amazing how someone can have a problem and just by talking about it find someone who puts the answer in such a way that it is understandable.

 

 

[Guest disperse]

I had similar probs at the start ...... I thought the rudder wased used to adjust the rate of turn..... I would end up with too much rudder and using the stick to hold of roll...

 

Now all I do is roll the aircraft straight..... and the aircraft turns it self.

 

and I use the rudder to simply counteract adverse yaw (Jabiru 55)

 

 

[Mazda]

Flying by the seat of your pants

 

It's good to learn the feel of being in balance. When flying straight and level apply rudder and feel how your bottom is heavier on one side. Confirm this with balance ball, use rudder to re-balance and feel how the weight is the same on both sides of your rear end. Try it again with the other rudder. Remember that feeling.

 

If you ever feel your rear end getting heavy on one side, you'll know you are out of balance without even looking down in the cockpit. Correct with rudder, confirm with the ball.

 

It works when turning. Look out first (including behind you because you are turning that way, and above and below in case anyone is climbing or descending), then smoothly roll with reference to the horizon while looking out and through the turn. Keep the turn balanced with rudder. You'll learn to feel it, and a quick glance down can confirm angle of bank and ball centred. Hold the nose on the required attitude and let it cut a level path around the horizon. The steeper the turn, the more you'll need to pull it around that horizon. (For really steep turns it feels like you roll to a certain bank angle then keep that bank on and pull the aircraft around the turn).

 

 

[Guest disperse]

It's good to learn the feel of being in balance. When flying straight and level apply rudder and feel how your bottom is heavier on one side. Confirm this with balance ball, use rudder to re-balance and feel how the weight is the same on both sides of your rear end. Try it again with the other rudder. Remember that feeling.If you ever feel your rear end getting heavy on one side, you'll know you are out of balance without even looking down in the cockpit. Correct with rudder, confirm with the ball.

 

It works when turning. Look out first (including behind you because you are turning that way, and above and below in case anyone is climbing or descending), then smoothly roll with reference to the horizon while looking out and through the turn. Keep the turn balanced with rudder. You'll learn to feel it, and a quick glance down can confirm angle of bank and ball centred. Hold the nose on the required attitude and let it cut a level path around the horizon. The steeper the turn, the more you'll need to pull it around that horizon. (For really steep turns it feels like you roll to a certain bank angle then keep that bank on and pull the aircraft around the turn).

Thanks Mazda !! I'll try this next time up....... it's one thing to have the ball tell you whats going on, but if you know the feeling then your ahead of the ball :thumb_up:

 

 

[antzx6r]

Hence the old saying "fly by the seat of you're pants"