A Win for Airports

[kgwilson]

Whenuapai Airport is a military base close to the heart of Auckland at Hobsonville. It began as a military base just before WW2 and was Aucklands civilian airport up until 1965. It is the main base for the Oceanic patrol P3 Orions soon to be replaced by Boeing P-8s and Hercules transports. I have flown in there a couple of times, once for an air show. Recently there has been controversy over a residential developer planning 300 houses nearby and getting the Environment Court to rule in its favour saying engine testing noise was excessive. It has also been mooted as a domestic airport for Auckland due to the congestion now at Auckland main airport at Mangere and its proximity to downtown Auckland.

 

Well finally the Defence Minister has stepped in and reversed the decision effectively saying that if you move next to an airport you need to accept aircraft noise.

 

See https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116574054/defence-minister-trumps-environment-court-decision-on-whenuapai-airbase-engine-noise

 

 

[turboplanner]

And that’s all it takes provided he backs it up with legislation.  

 

The hard arm part in Australian States has been to get the Politicians to put definitive clauses into the Planning Schemes.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Apparently he issued a certificate provided for under a national security provisions, presumably something like that can trump any court ruling.

 

"Make no mistake this is a last resort. This power should only be used when absolutely necessary," Mark said on Tuesday.

 

 

[old man emu]

Whatever happened to caveat emptor? You don't try to establish a meditation centre beside a rail shunting yard, and you shouldn't develop residential land adjacent to the extended centre lines of runways and expect the sounds of silence.

 

What gets my goat is that these newcomers complain about aircraft noise, but say nothing about the noise from motor vehicles with dodgy silencing systems, or emphysemic turbochargers.

 

Consider this. The pilot of an aircraft taking off has the required power setting in place about an eighth of the distance into the take off run, and maintains it to at least 1000" (approx 300 metres). Therefore the noise that the engine makes is constant to at least 300 metres altitude and then it is likely to reduce. However, Harry the Hoon, in his V8 ute with non-standard muffler system can be heard revving the t!ts off his engine up to a kilometre away, even in residential areas.  What's worse? The occasional overflight giving rise to a constant hum, or frequent intermittent high decibel screams from motor vehicles?

 

Come to my place any weekend and see which causes the most disturbance.  

 

 

[turboplanner]

Whatever happened to caveat emptor? You don't try to establish a meditation centre beside a rail shunting yard, and you shouldn't develop residential land adjacent to the extended centre lines of runways and expect the sounds of silence.

 

What gets my goat is that these newcomers complain about aircraft noise, but say nothing about the noise from motor vehicles with dodgy silencing systems, or emphysemic turbochargers.

 

Consider this. The pilot of an aircraft taking off has the required power setting in place about an eighth of the distance into the take off run, and maintains it to at least 1000" (approx 300 metres). Therefore the noise that the engine makes is constant to at least 300 metres altitude and then it is likely to reduce. However, Harry the Hoon, in his V8 ute with non-standard muffler system can be heard revving the t!ts off his engine up to a kilometre away, even in residential areas.  What's worse? The occasional overflight giving rise to a constant hum, or frequent intermittent high decibel screams from motor vehicles?

 

Come to my place any weekend and see which causes the most disturbance.  

 

The airfield owners usually only seek approval for their property, not the aerial traffic patterns, which is a curious omission.

 

Years or decades later dodgy developers by parcels of land from farmers, who are happy, retiring to the Gold Coast etc.

 

Years after that these developers sell off parcels for residential development with neither the seller or the buyer concerned about noise or supporting infrastructure like schools, shops.

 

The residential developer puts in roads, infrastructure lines and sells off housing lots and by a million to one chance forgets to tell the buyers there are no schools, shops, and there is an airport noise factor and potential flood factor etc.

 

After the buyers have spent a few nights in their new homes they discover this loud noise......

 

I've never seen caveat emptor mentioned in any planning document, ever. Perhaps it's something from the past which was discontinued.  I've certainly heard it plenty of times, mainly from hopeful sellers.

 

 

[red750]

What about those ignorant sods on barking off road bikes that roar around the suburbs after dark with no lights? Or the inconsiderate pr1cks that start up their mowers and petrol line trimmers early on the weekends? I've got a mower (69dB) and just got a petrol line trimmer, but don't use them until after lunch. No-one causes a stink about them. 

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just realised that Caveat Emptor was probably wiped out by the 1974 Trade Practices Act.

 

 

[old man emu]

Et talis emptor rem non satis est quaerere quaestiones: tum quia anathema patiatur ob segnitiam

 

If the buyer does not ask enough questions, then let him suffer for his indolence

 

 

[mkennard]

Or it could be the case of a way to increase the value of their land by getting rid of the airport.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's no easy way of knowing whether a product is as it is presented or is a real lemon. Often only time will tell. Misrepresentation  (LYING) is too easy to do, unpunished. No name? A brand name was once it's greatest assett. Now those names are just transferred to a fully imported product from you know where at a price way above the equal product "with made in China" PROMINENTLY on it..

 

   With Land, Buy a known swamp area  get it re designated and sell it for  a $#1tload and be gone before the next big flood event. Or buy near an airport and get rid of the airport. There's no shortage of spivs and snake oil salesmen. Nev

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There was a guy on telly who had bought a block of land in qld, to retire on. He had driven out with the salesman when deciding. The block was on a hill with a view of the sea.

 

Years later, he brought his wife up to see the block and somebody else was building on it...  turned out that the block he really bought was underwater on big tides.

 

Nobody had any sympathy for a stupid guy from down south who bought in qld without his own lawyer and surveyor.

 

This was a long time ago, I hope they are better now....

 

 

[facthunter]

 I know a bloke who can do you a good deal on a bridge in Sydney, I think he said it was. He said he wasn't a con man.  Nev

 

 

[johnm]

What about those ignorant sods on barking off road bikes that roar around the suburbs after dark with no lights? Or the inconsiderate pr1cks that start up their mowers and petrol line trimmers early on the weekends? I've got a mower (69dB) and just got a petrol line trimmer, but don't use them until after lunch. No-one causes a stink about them. 

 

what about the line trimmers and mowers that start up after lunch ............................ right at / during siesta time - oh for a house at antarctica (no neighbours)

 

 

[turboplanner]

Check out anti-noise glazing, it's a lot cheaper than it used to be.

 

 

[old man emu]

I recently watch an episode of Selling Houses Australia in which the property was a former railway crossing keeper's cottage. Obviously it was right beside a double track section that carried both regular intra and inter-city passenger traffic and intercity freight traffic. The intrusion of the railway noise into the house was a negative selling factor. As part of the spruce up to sell the property, they installed what is called "secondary glazing" on the windows on the railway side of the house. After the fitting, the noise of the trains was virtually eliminated.

 

Here's some information about soundproofing by glazing: http://blog.thermawood.com.au/soundproof-windows-cost

 

However, I can live with the regular drone of an aero engine, but not the racket made by the Doof-Doof crowd's cars and bikes.

 

 

[Andrew Beveridge]

Whenuapai Airport is a military base close to the heart of Auckland at Hobsonville. It began as a military base just before WW2 and was Aucklands civilian airport up until 1965. It is the main base for the Oceanic patrol P3 Orions soon to be replaced by Boeing P-8s and Hercules transports. I have flown in there a couple of times, once for an air show. Recently there has been controversy over a residential developer planning 300 houses nearby and getting the Environment Court to rule in its favour saying engine testing noise was excessive. It has also been mooted as a domestic airport for Auckland due to the congestion now at Auckland main airport at Mangere and its proximity to downtown Auckland.

 

Well finally the Defence Minister has stepped in and reversed the decision effectively saying that if you move next to an airport you need to accept aircraft noise.

 

See https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116574054/defence-minister-trumps-environment-court-decision-on-whenuapai-airbase-engine-noise

 

That's great news! To all you Kiwis, can you please send some of that 'pragmatic common sense' over the ditch, as it's in precious short supply in Australia. Jandakot where I did my PPL has been under threat for the last couple of decades and will eventually become a housing estate... It will be an incredibly sad day for aviation, and "once gone", it will never ever be possible to reinstate such fantastic infrastructure, so close to the city of Perth. Sydney and Melbourne are facing similar challenges, and it really begs the question : "What is the national strategy for supporting World class airports such as Jandakot?..... when pressure from developers is leading to their inevitable, sad and appalling closure?" 

 

 

[red750]

Just try closing a golf course for housing and listen to the uproar. And what do golf courses add to the economy? Not as much as an airport.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just try closing a golf course for housing and listen to the uproar. And what do golf courses add to the economy? Not as much as an airport.

 

Several golf courses around the SE outskirts of Melbourne have gone into partnership with developers and tried to have their golf courese rezones Residential for subdvision to generate profits to cover a lot more than the cost of building further out, so they can lower fees to stop the membership drain. Most have run foul of zoning regulations.