Savannah stall.

[shafs64]

Hi wanted to know it normal for the Savannah to high nose attitude when you are trying to stall it.

 

Paul

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

very nose high...you can even get them to almost helicopter

 

 

[shafs64]

Well all is ok then. when were trying to stall the aircraft it was just sitting there like it was on the end of a string.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

If you want to do a proper stall how the experts determine the offical stall speed watch this for the S21 and Randy Schlitter. Watch from 9min and 8 sec into the video. It works..I tested this in my sav and it matches the POH for 600kg at 33kts no flap

 

 

 

 

[shafs64]

Interesting Kyle. we were doing exactly what the rans guy said just sitting there not stalling but losing height.

 

 

[facthunter]

Depends on what you call, not stalling. You've got plenty of drag and your slats/slots are working hard . Mushing is what I call it. Not what one does in gusty conditions. The law of gravity is like a tensioned spring. It's always there and never gets tired.. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

It would be interesting to know what your Instructor is thinking Shafs. Was that “it” for stalling or was he going to do the power on (full power) stall in the next session.

 

The Piper Cherokee is an aircraft that mushes in  a power off stall, leading many people to believe they’ll never stall one, but when you pull the nose right up with full throttle in a power on it drops like a brick, giving you a new respect for the WHOLE flying envelope.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

Interesting Kyle. we were doing exactly what the rans guy said just sitting there not stalling but losing height.

 

I'm with Nev - depends on what you mean - I understood a stalled(whole of aircraft) situation to be when the wing(s) ceases to provide meaningful lift.

 

 

[Thruster88]

In a normal  training type stall the wing washout does it's job, the nose drops even without pilot input and the plane is flying again. Aggravated stall  caused by ham fisted pilot or a gust stalling the entire wing anything can happen without correct inputs. 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Even a full power on stall in a Sav is pretty beneign. Its even very docile if you drop a wing it doesnt do it like the RV or similar. Its a very safe flying aircraft. You would really have to be doing some pretty crazy stuff to make it bite you. The only time they will bite is on the ground as the nosewheel is weak and those small rudder/brake pedals are a issue 

 

 

[facthunter]

If it was in a wind tunnel or has tufts on it you would see the airflow reversing on the top rear part of the wing. It's a lightly wing loaded aircraft so will act almost as a parachute. All planes behave worse when tail heavy and never get too relaxed about ANY of them. The laminar flow types with smaller radius leading edges have more rapid and unpredictable break away.. If you dynamically load the wing it's always more severe as the stick's further back and the wing's  doing more work. Nev

 

 

[kasper]

Even a full power on stall in a Sav is pretty beneign. Its even very docile if you drop a wing it doesnt do it like the RV or similar. Its a very safe flying aircraft. You would really have to be doing some pretty crazy stuff to make it bite you. The only time they will bite is on the ground as the nosewheel is weak and those small rudder/brake pedals are a issue 

 

Yep,

 

We had a 'lovely' runway video of a visiting Sav 'stalling' from around 2 feet ... it ended with the nosewheel including yoke bouncing off down the runway while the Sav sat in a cloud of dust looking very sorry for itself.  Fortunately SO slow as it hit that it did not have the momentum to dig and flip but remained upright.

 

Lots of "fun" (and $$) replacing everything airframe foward of the seat backs and doing the engine prop strike inspections to get it back in the air.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Even a full power on stall in a Sav is pretty beneign.

 

What wing profile do they use KC?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

big thick Clark Y type..same as the 701 except no slats

 

 

[turboplanner]

There was a pilot featured on, I think, 60 minutes who flew his Sav from Tasmania to Uluru and back. Some time later he and his son were badly injured when the Sav fell down sideways 300 ft to the ground. it may be covered on this site somewhere.

 

 

[shafs64]

I will state i am far from an expert on any aircraft and stalling. The Sav s i just started fly seems to have a high nose attitude. in slow flight and landing. when you think you have flared enough for landing then you bounce back into the air turns out to be of surprise and not flying with my none dominate hand is a chore too. it feels uncoordinated.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The hand will soon become sub-conscious.

 

 

[JG3]

What wing profile do they use KC?

 

It's a modified NACA 65018. Bottom surface flat instead of slightly under cambered.

 

 

[skippydiesel]

I will state i am far from an expert on any aircraft and stalling. The Sav s i just started fly seems to have a high nose attitude. in slow flight and landing. when you think you have flared enough for landing then you bounce back into the air turns out to be of surprise and not flying with my none dominate hand is a chore too. it feels uncoordinated.

 

Hi Shafs64 -

 

I fly a low wing aircraft with a single pilot (85 kg) stall speed of 35 knots (as I am only 65 kg it may be even lower for me).  I have found over many hours of flying this aircraft that you must practice to be very disciplined with your approach speeds. In my case it's 60 knots on erly final, 50 knots mid final and 40 knots "over the fence". My aircraft side/forward slips very nicely so if I am too high I can descend rapidly with little increase in speed. I also use my flaps to good effect -  I have the choice of three stages, so can deploy what I need to extend or reduce glide & slope (final stage is pretty much just added drag). I also "dump"/raise my flaps  just befor touchdown. This has the effect of removing lift which in tern gets your main wheels on the ground ASAP should you need to start braking.

 

One other thing - I am always learning but in the erly days of having my plane I did a lot of slow flying at safe altitude (recoverable)  - just to get the feel of what the aircraft would do with variose inputs and to recognise a safe attitude. Too many small aircraft "stall" on turning base & final because the pilot does not recognise the safe attitude and the low inertia (rapide slowing) of his/her airplane.

 

Its all practice and more practise and then nature will demonstrate you haven't got a clue by throwing a sudden unexpected gust/drop in wind at you - good for removing any pride that might have crept in.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Marty_d]

There was a pilot featured on, I think, 60 minutes who flew his Sav from Tasmania to Uluru and back. Some time later he and his son were badly injured when the Sav fell down sideways 300 ft to the ground. it may be covered on this site somewhere.

 

Was that the bloke who's a presenter on Channel 7 fishing show... "Hook Line and Sinker" or something.

 

I heard from another 701 builder near Launceston who bought the wreck of that aircraft (701 not Sav) - he said that this bloke had taken off the slats, then crashed it after takeoff from one of the islands - could be Flinders.

 

This was about 10 years ago.  There may have been other father/son 701/Savannah crashes since.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Was that the bloke who's a presenter on Channel 7 fishing show... "Hook Line and Sinker" or something.

 

I heard from another 701 builder near Launceston who bought the wreck of that aircraft (701 not Sav) - he said that this bloke had taken off the slats, then crashed it after takeoff from one of the islands - could be Flinders.

 

This was about 10 years ago.  There may have been other father/son 701/Savannah crashes since.

 

Not sure about the guy, I thought he was quite old, which was a theme in the Uluru story.

 

Could have been a 701 - I remember it had a 4 blade prop.

 

Taking the slats off was all the go about then, to get a faster cruising speed. VGs came in over that period too.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Not sure about the guy, I thought he was quite old, which was a theme in the Uluru story.

 

Could have been a 701 - I remember it had a 4 blade prop.

 

Taking the slats off was all the go about then, to get a faster cruising speed. VGs came in over that period too.

 

Did some more research, found the guy (over 80 at the time, but that played no part).

 

It was a Savannah, and the first flight after the slats had been removed and VGs fitted, and it was taking off heavily loaded on an uphill strip.

 

However, the main factory was a wind downdraft, so you can disregard this one when talkoing about routine stalls.

 

 

[JG3]

Did some more research, found the guy (over 80 at the time, but that played no part).

 

It was a Savannah, and the first flight after the slats had been removed and VGs fitted, and it was taking off heavily loaded on an uphill strip.

 

However, the main factory was a wind downdraft, so you can disregard this one when talkoing about routine stalls.

 

All correct, EXTREME down slope wind conditions.  And he had full flaps deployed, bad practice for take off in those conditions.....

 

 

[JG3]

For those who haven't seen these yet, here are detailed and very thorough flight testing of different wing configurations on a Savannah:

 

https://www.stolspeed.com/flight-testing-slats-vs-vgs

 

 

[facthunter]

The high nose position is not to be considered weird. It's what you must do to reach the limits of the wing. Lowering flap tends to lower the nose on approach giving you more vision but making the nosewheel contact a bit more likely. These planes should sit quite nose down on the trigear to help avoid nosewheel damage.( Prop tip clearance permitting). When you are really slow you are particularly sensitive to wind variations and low wing loadings mean a lot of extra lift is available quickly and /or a lot of what you have can be lost quickly because you are slow and draggy. Nev