Light aircraft crash, S.A. Riverland

[alf jessup]

The problem is whether he's learnt anything from his foolhardiness/showing off - and doesn't do it again - or if he's the arrogant type who blames everyone and everything else, but himself, for his crash.

 

The bloke is quite a pleasant and nice fellow to be honest, if he hasn’t learnt now well what can one say, I don’t think it is him defending himself I know his brother is to the hilt.

 

Yes I have been banned from the PLA Facebook page as friends obviously administrators don’t like hearing the truth about Tex the flying cowboy.

 

Their loss not mine I tried to guide him out of his risk taking flying.

 

If I get banned from here so be it, I say it as it is and don’t sugarcoat sh!t.

 

Like me or loathe me I won’t lose any sleep over it.

 

 

[alf jessup]

PS, but I am a nice honest person though lol 

 

 

[Thruster88]

Alf you did the right thing. Every easily avoidable accident has a big effect on those that make a living in aviation, instructors, operators, maintenance. One reason that GA is declining is the general public is reluctant to flyi in small planes. I have told my young adult kids they should not go flying in a small plane without asking me first, sad but true. (Small planes are any piston powered)  

 

 

[facthunter]

Honest Alf Jessup. I don't think I would go THERE, A few people have applied the Honest title to themselves and it isn't convincing. Ie "Honest" John HOWARD and others . I don't mean the Hon. (Honorable) title all pollies get. THAT almost sticks in the throat when applied to some.. I think they rate above Banking CEO's currently though.  There's only 3 axis's and now you have all 3 . That's a 100% achievement. You aren't lacking where it counts.  There's one proviso. (nothing's perfect).. A good friend of mine (now deceased) flew Hurricanes during the war and he told me in some confidence (so only you and I know this,)........

 

   When they stopped using  wing warping, things started to go bad. Nev

 

 

[alf jessup]

Alf you did the right thing. Every easily avoidable accident has a big effect on those that make a living in aviation, instructors, operators, maintenance. One reason that GA is declining is the general public is reluctant to flyi in small planes. I have told my young adult kids they should not go flying in a small plane without asking me first, sad but true. (Small planes are any piston powered)  

 

Thing is Thruster if I have a shot at some it is only because I care about their welfare, not about me being a bully or thinking I am better than them.

 

Sh!t I had a crack in person at a trike instructor at one of the flyin’s I once organised, he took off with a pax climbing at a ridiculous angle with all around me going wow look at that, me I’m standing there shaking my head saying don’t do it.

 

He couldn’t wait to get home to call me and ask me what I thought of his takeoff, I bluntly told him in no uncertain terms he was a $@(/ idiot and never to do that again at something I have organised. Mind you this mate is also a copper but did I care? Nope.

 

Also made mention to him he was an instructor and had to lead by example and not let wide eyed new pilots look in awe and think they can do it.

 

Told him bluntly to pull his head in.

 

Spoke to another Trike instructor also once after the student he was flying beside caught a wire and ended up in a storage dam and survived (only by chance that a power boat came to the newly not overly long licensed pilot before he drowned)

 

Told him he should be leading by example also but his words were “once they are licensed I have not control over what they do”

 

My response was lead by example and don’t fly beside you student at low level.

 

Fell on deaf ears as the instructor took himself out and a paying overseas visitor in a Gyro accident a few years later flying low over the hills near where he was based.

 

I am not scared of saying anything to anyone if I think they are putting them and there passengers in harms way by being a dick.

 

i

 

I hope if I do something stupid people will chip me for it, I’ll take it on the chin and think good on him/her for looking out for me.

 

But some are above help because they are guns, well they think they are.

 

Alf

 

 

[alf jessup]

Honest Alf Jessup. I don't think I would go THERE, A few people have applied the Honest title to themselves and it isn't convincing. Ie "Honest" John HOWARD and others . I don't mean the Hon. (Honorable) title all pollies get. THAT almost sticks in the throat when applied to some.. I think they rate above Banking CEO's currently though.  There's only 3 axis's and now you have all 3 . That's a 100% achievement. You aren't lacking where it counts.  There's one proviso. (nothing's perfect).. A good friend of mine (now deceased) flew Hurricanes during the war and he told me in some confidence (so only you and I know this,)........

 

   When they stopped using  wing warping, things started to go bad. Nev

 

Nev,  

 

 

I’m not a politician lol, 

Meet me one day I am what you will see lol

 

Ok disregard Honest, 

 

Brash, mongrel, opinionated, arrogant, deceitful, low life, storyteller, top gun, can’t happen to me?

 

 

Oh well maybe a couple of those, well maybe 1.

 

Better?

 

 

[turboplanner]

I am not scared of saying anything to anyone if I think they are putting them and there passengers in harms way by being a dick.

 

Keep up the good work Alf; most people say nothing and effectively just let them die.

 

 

[djpacro]

Yes I have been banned from the PLA Facebook page as friends obviously administrators don’t like hearing the truth .....

 

Nope, defamation laws here expose them to legal action which is costly. Nought to do with anyone’s version of the truth.

 

.......

 

One of my friends was criticised by a coroner in court. He had witnessed unsafe behaviour by someone on a number of occasions and had words with the pilot. Didn’t stop the guy killing himself and a young passenger. If he had told CASA it may have changed things.

 

 

[facthunter]

I would like to think you are right there, but thing s would have  to change. and I'm not sure the dog sic'd on would be even handed always Nev

 

 

[Love to fly]

Yes I have been banned from the PLA Facebook page as friends obviously administrators don’t like hearing the truth about Tex the flying cowboy.

 

Hmm Truth. Banned??  No. You still show on the list of members. Muted (can't post for short period of time) perhaps. 

 

 

[planedriver]

Many would no doubt be a bit pee'd off initially if someone expressed concern at their antics, however, hopefully they would think about it and live to fly another day.

 

Forewarned is to be fore-armed, or at least that's the way it's intended to be.

 

In my books, you did the responsible thing Alf   and family members would no doubt appreciate it too.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

Alternatively - You bought the ticket, now take the ride.

 

Tell CASA? Likely not interested and it may focus their malevolent gaze on you. Tried reporting dangerous driving to the police? My wife did once and was made to feel like a criminal.

 

If people do stupid things in aircraft and won't take the hint just encourage them to do something stupid where it is unlikely to harm anyone else and let them go for it. The sooner they come unstuck, the better.

 

Nev, pal of mine who has been flying airliners for 45 years and still is, reckons it was the invention of runways instead of all over grass, when things went bad.

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes he's completely correct. They force you do do downwind, crosswind landings . Even birds don't do that unless they are very young and inexperienced and they quickly learn. Nev

 

 

[djpacro]

Tell CASA? Likely not interested and it may focus their malevolent gaze on you.

 

Certainly a consideration. Submitting a CAIR to ATSB will get info to CASA without identifying yourself.

 

My experience is that mentioning anything individually has nil effect.

 

 

[Yenn]

I usually speak my mind if I see someone doing stupid things. I prefer to do it privately but sometimes that doesn't happen. I was overheard ripping off an instructor years ago. Later someone dobbed him in to RAAus or CASA and I got the cold shoulder from several pilots. They said I had dobbed him in. I didn't even see what he did to be dobbed in, but it was at my local strip.

 

I was pissed off about the cold shoulder and innuendo's being thrown around. I wrote to CASA asking for them to explain that it was not me, who had dobbed him in. but It turned out it was RAAus and one of their local reps let the word out that I was not involved, he even offered to tell me who the dobber was, but I didn't want to know.

 

It is not always a good idea to speak up, if you want a quiet life.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

"Submitting a CAIR to ATSB will get info to CASA without identifying yourself."

 

Where CASA will then put it in the day VFR private/recreational/sports file and forget about it. You've heard the joke about Write Only memory?

 

Neither CASA nor ATSB cares what we do to ourselves as long as we don't fall on people on the ground or run into regional airliners. That much is abundantly clear.

 

The regulations are there to keep them in the clear if that does happen. When there is a political/public outcry as a result they will point to the voluminous body of law and regulation and say " what more can we do? We've already made it as difficult as possible for these people to operate".

 

This is how much of government works. Solutions that don't work for problems that mostly don't exist, all brought to you at vast expense.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Hmm Truth. Banned??  No. You still show on the list of members. Muted (can't post for short period of time) perhaps. 

 

Yep same as banned basically, can’t comment so no difference to me.

 

 

[alf jessup]

I usually speak my mind if I see someone doing stupid things. I prefer to do it privately but sometimes that doesn't happen. I was overheard ripping off an instructor years ago. Later someone dobbed him in to RAAus or CASA and I got the cold shoulder from several pilots. They said I had dobbed him in. I didn't even see what he did to be dobbed in, but it was at my local strip.

 

I was pissed off about the cold shoulder and innuendo's being thrown around. I wrote to CASA asking for them to explain that it was not me, who had dobbed him in. but It turned out it was RAAus and one of their local reps let the word out that I was not involved, he even offered to tell me who the dobber was, but I didn't want to know.

 

It is not always a good idea to speak up, if you want a quiet life.

 

Agree Yenn,

 

I will wear any flak that family and friends of any pilot cowboy in icu throws my way.

 

They might stare in awe at the magnificent flying feats of their hero right up until they bin it, while I will try to convince any pilot from killing or maiming themselves through foolhardy exploits in aviation.

 

They have to be doing some serious stupid stuff before I will make contact with them about their activities.

 

I always get a laugh when the defence team tries to defend somethings well and truly available on the persons social media page.

 

I mean to tell people the dog flying in the plane with him on the 9news feed was photoshopped??

 

Yep so are the other 4 photos on his page then??

 

I mean really!!! Wouldn’t you think to delete incriminating stuff from social media first before shooting your mouth off?

 

Anyways lot more to it than a photoshopped dog lol.

 

 

[Jim McDowall]

But the caviate I would insist on, were I able too, would be that his licence be canceled in definatley and forever, both for his sake and the general public.

 

for caviate read caveat

 

for canceled read cancelled

 

for definatley read definitely

 

Now that you have my attention:

 

RAA issues certificates NOT licences and they can be suspended until such time as RAA goes through its processes. CASA may however unilaterally cancel a certificate (CAR 269). CASA's decision can be appealed through Administrative Appeals Tribunal etc. 

 

RAA's processes are outlined in their recent Complaints manual. RAA's decision may be appealed to CASA but good luck with that because CASA can refuse a review and then the procedures laid out in CASR 149.630(1) are a recipe for a kangaroo court:

 

(1)  In conducting a review of an internal review decision of an ASAO:

 

 

                     (a)  the procedures for conducting the review are within the discretion of CASA; and

 

 

                     (b)  CASA is not bound by the rules of evidence; and

 

 

                     ©  CASA may inform itself in any way it thinks fit; and

 

 

                     (d)  the review is to be conducted with as little technicality and formality, and as quickly and economically, as a proper consideration of the matters permit.

 

CASA claims that its decision is reviewable by the AAT. The AAT may not want to however, review the decision of a private body (RAA). In any event the AAT Act 1975 Section 37 requires :

 

a person who has made a decision that is the subject of an application for review (other than second review) by the Tribunal must, within 28 days after receiving notice of the application (or within such further period as the Tribunal allows), lodge with the Tribunal a copy of:

 

                     (a)  a statement setting out the findings on material questions of fact, referring to the evidence or other material on which those findings were based and giving the reasons for the decision; and

 

                     (b)  subject to any directions given under section 18B, every other document that is in the person’s possession or under the person’s control and is relevant to the review of the decision by the Tribunal

 

On the basis of these requirements CASA, if it acted in the manner laid down in CASR 149.630 would almost certainly lose any appeal to the AAT.

 

Or do they know that the AAT will not ever hear an appeal of any decision made under CASR149?

 

 

[Hargraves]

Thank you for that info Jim, CASA certainly is the monster we thought it was sir as you point out, and yes i don,t use a spell check as well but the message remains the same, cheers Mick.

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

After reading my post (Nov 17th) it looks like I'm suggesting this bloke did do a beat up. So, I'd like to say that I'm not suggesting anything. I wasn't there, didn't see a thing. I would like to add that I was once low over a fence because of a short strip, the wind stopped and I sunk like a rock. Had the tires been new, I would have hit that fence. Then many would have said I was flying too low.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There was a guy at Gawler who took off from a taxyway which served a line of hangars. I thought this was funny at the time and didn't say anything.

 

A few week later, this guy crashed ( not at Gawler )  doing a stupid stunt and killed a 17 year old kid (passenger) with himself.

 

I was wrong to keep quiet at the first incident. Maybe a telling-off might have prevented the big crash. At the least, the parents of the kid might not have approved of him flying with this guy if they had known more. In hindsight, he should have been banned from carrying any passengers.

 

 

[Yenn]

Being banned from carrying passengers does not stop anyone from carrying passengers. I am thinking of a cowboy who I was critical of years ago. he was banned from commercial flying by CASA but still did it. End result a passenger died when they went into the ocean, on a commercial flight.

 

I think CASA was aware that he was still doing commercial flights and turned a blind eye to it. CASA learnt from that.

 

 

[facthunter]

 And We all suffer more scrutiny and restrictions. Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

Yes he was well known to CASA and ignored all of the restrictions placed on him. Someone else in the business was supposed to be taking the passengers. The paying passengers had no inkling of his history or they would have avoided his business like the plague. At the time I think that CASA was of the opinion that once they had decided he should not personally be allowed to carry on commercial flying operations he would not and therefore no oversight was required. Wrong and with the reputation he had they should have known it. Most of the pilots in Australia knew.