Upsetting statistic

[pmccarthy]

XF looks good to me. It does everything that I am interested in.

 

 

[kgwilson]

XF looks good to me. It does everything that I am interested in.

 

Me too.

 

 

[peter]

Hi Ian, I am a reader rather than a poster. i get the technical information I need/want via the Sonex forum which is so type specific. These are the only forums I read. i enjoy the Australian content and it is the only way I keep in touch with “recreational” flying. To remain aerobatic I must stay registered GA but at 289kg and with an 80hp vw at the pointy end I feel much more affinity with the flying for fun group.

 

I never use the resources, would be happy with a simple platform and have no objection to any advertising.

 

Thankyou for keeping it going for so long.

 

Peter

 

 

[old man emu]

The roots of the problem facing Ian are the costs involved in having the site. This is called the hosting fee, which he has to pay to some service provider so that the site can be on the Internet. I would also expect that he has to pay a licensing fee to use what ever software makes the site. 

 

So there are four options that I can see:

 

1. Do nothing and Ian foots the total bill.

 

2. Rely on donations

 

3. Instigate a "user pay" fee

 

4. Rent out space on the pages for advertising.

 

I think that we can agree that Option 1 can be ruled out as being unfair on Ian. Option 2 relies on the other financial commitments of users. Option 3 would, I think, drive people away. That leaves Option 4 as the most viable.

 

How does Ian rent space for advertising? 

 

What you see on your screens is a page that is divided into three sections. Across the top is the "banner" space. Down the left side is the "navigation bar" space and the rest of the page where out wit and wisdom appears is the content space. The banner and Nav bar space can be further sectioned off to provide space for placing advertisements. If you look at the Whatsup site you will see that there is also a space on the right hand side of the page that could be divided up for advertising space.

 

So how does Ian make these spaces available for rent. Google has a thing called AdSense which allows a site owner to set aside space on a web page into which Google places ads from non-related businesses. Since a picture saves a thousand words, here is an explanatory video 

 which does a good job of explaining what would happen if Ian rented out space on web pages.

 

How does this generate income for the site?

 

These ads are links to the advertiser's site. If you click on the add, another tab opens in your browser to display the advertiser's site. The advertiser has paid Google to access sites using AdSense. Every time the advertiser's ad is clicked on Ian's site, the advertiser is charged a small amount by Google. From that advertiser's fee, a portion is paid into Ian's account. When the account balance reaches $100, Google pays Ian.

 

So, for Ian's site to earn money, all we users have to do each time we are on this site is click on a couple of these ads to see what the advertiser is offering. It's no different than looking at the ads as you read through your favourite aviation magazine.

 

What's you input to this idea?

 

Ian would not do this if he thought that members objected to having ads in those specific areas. After all, doe you use all the links in the Nav bar, or can accurately describe what's in the header bar? The ads would not obscure the stuff you want to read in the content section of the page.

 

So, please give Ian some feedback to help him make a decision.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[gareth lacey]

I think that a service fee of 50$a year is the better option for most of us of course there will be some who cannot afford it 

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Ian, what money are you looking at each year to service us with the forum?

 

 

[Admin]

The basic financial cost is around $3,500 a year for just the current hosting and license costs

 

 

[rgmwa]

The basic financial cost is around $3,500 a year for just the current hosting and license costs

 

What's the cost of using XF?

 

 

[old man emu]

I think that a service fee of 50$a year is the better option for most of us of course there will be some who cannot afford it 

 

If AdSense was incorporated, those impoverished amongst us could always investigate the advertisers' sites and come back here. Ker-ching!

 

 

[Admin]

The difference between the software I.e. IPS vs XF is IPS around $400 per year and XF around $200 per year. Hosting is around $250 per month.

 

 

[djpacro]

 

Really? I've had a couple of posts edited, and one removed recently, was pretty much called a racist also, for factually explaining how some immigrants were using methods to get residential visas. 

 

In the Alan Joyce thread someone said "I wonder if Qantas gave him a big gift" and I quipped "His husband would give him a big gift" - it was removed. It was a joke, and typical Australian conversational humour at that.  Why the completely irrelevant off topic about someone's marriage was even allowed to run .....

 

Thing is previously we could discuss things here, not racist things, but factual things, it was one of the few forums left you could express yourself. And of course hand in hand with that, you removed Off Topic because a few members forced themselves pain by continually open threads who's content they were well aware of.

 

I went to a thread about an accident to find myself in the midst of a discussion about  Japanese immigration. I'm only interested in coming to a recreationalflying forum for recreational flying discussions. It has been in a downward spiral for some time so relying on subscriptions and pushing donations will only add to the downwards spiral. Usual recovery from a spiral dive - unload, power off, roll level and pull out.

 

 

[Admin]

unload, power off, roll level and pull out

 

Thanks DJ...so in context of the site what would you do for:

 

unload - ???

 

power off - ???

 

roll level - ???

 

pull out - ???

 

this could be really helpful

 

 

[rgmwa]

The difference between the software I.e. IPS vs XF is IPS around $400 per year and XF around $200 per year. Hosting is around $250 per month.

 

So if I understand correctly, hosting is about $3,000 per year whichever platform you use, and the net saving for switching back to XF would be about $600 per year?

 

I think that at the very least the site should break even. You shouldn't have to find most of that money out of your own pocket to provide us with this service. If a few ads would help bring in more revenue, then go for it. Have you tried getting some sponsorship, say from RAAus or SAAA since you are providing a service that complements what they do and most of us here are probably members of one or both organisations?

 

 

[Admin]

Over the years I have probably put around $50,000 to $60,000 raw cash into providing this resource for ALL recreational aviators in the hope that it helps to keep them safer and reduces the number of silly mistakes that are made that causes injury or even death to our fellow flyers simply through the exchange of helpful information between us all. Add to that I believe I have put in more hours of every day of every year than the entire RAAus board combined to help recreational aviators. I became an RAAus board member to expose all the underhand activities towards recreational aviators and then later was thrown out of the RAAus, legal action taken against me, aircraft distributor tried extortion against me, and so much more of all these kind of activities taken against me for having this site/resource. I have given recreational aviators a voice over all these years much to RAAus's disgust so you can forget RAAus's support in any way although I don't comment on them any more, and on the other side of the coin I have been dealt extreme prejudice against me by some site users for simply being human who just like them and everyone else has good days, bad days, can make good decisions and bad decisions all in just trying to help everyone in the MOST NICE AND FRIENDLY way and try to do what I could to keep recreational aviators safe in an activity that can at times be dangerous in a happy environment.

 

I can only help people if there are people to help...and that is the crux of the current issue. Facebook costs nothing and takes just about nothing to manage so the effort a person needs to devote to other recreational aviators is negligible compared to here but as we know with Facebook you get very little in return compared to the potential you could get here...but only if there are people to give it.

 

For those that were here at the beginning would remember me saying that a person will never ever have to pay to get help from here so any form of paid subscription to access valuable information to help them is strictly not endorsed by me...First Class Member is a donation and in return you not only help the site to continue but you also get extra site functionality not extra information that will help you to fly safer as that must be available to everyone, however I do truly thank those that help the site by way of their small donation, it is greatly appreciated.

 

The simple question that needs an answer amongst all of this is, as I said, I can only help people if there are people to help so how do we do that, we will probably never know if a person has read something here from another user that prevents injury to themselves or damage to their aircraft but at least the information is here and many many recreational aviators are also here helping each other to do that. If the site does not achieve this then the financial cost and dedicated hours should be stopped...I hope not!

 

 

[old man emu]

Ian,

 

What's your response to AdSense?

 

 

[Admin]

I had adsense a few years back and you get very little from it, about $100 every 3 to 4 months. The best option is actual sponsors with a display advert in the right column at say $50 to $75 a month and if you could get 5 of them it would pay the site financial cost. IPS has the management of them built in whilst in XF there is an addon that provides for the management of them

 

 

[old man emu]

A few years back is several lifetimes in digital marketing. How many hits was this site getting then, and how many clicks on advertiser's ads were you getting? 

 

It's a new world now and people are getting used to looking into embedded ads.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

I will pay not to have embedded ads , they are annoying and intrusive

 

 

[djpacro]

Thanks DJ...so in context of the site what would you do for:

 

unload - ???

 

Obviously, recovery actions for a spiral dive in an aircraft would not strictly apply but just an idea to focus on the objectives and how to achieve them.

 

I just went to a part of the forum about “General discussion on recreational and general aviation” and got into a discussion about drugs. Why would I bother?

 

So, my first thought is to unload the irrelevant stuff.

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

The difference between the software I.e. IPS vs XF is IPS around $400 per year and XF around $200 per year. Hosting is around $250 per month.

 

So the big ticket item is Hosting = $3,000.   The difference between XF & IPS is small by comparison ($200).  Firstly, I would suggest not changing the software again, as the chaos upsets the loyal, long term users who have forgotten how to stop email notifications, struggle with things not being in their usual place and acting as they did, and needing patience while things are migrated.  Stick with what gives you the most functionality for the future.

 

There's a good number of us who are not on Facebook - we need this site.

 

There are a number of First Class Members and some of them may be happy to give more than $50 if they knew there was a short-fall. 

 

I like the Forum: - Accidents & Incidents, the builds, Laughter (NES!!), general discussions, guess the plane.  Resources, Aircraft, Classifieds - waiting for the Book Review.  Not so interested in Off-Topic.

 

Thanks for the site - I love it.

 

 

[old man emu]

I went to a thread about an accident to find myself in the midst of a discussion about  Japanese immigration. I'm only interested in coming to a recreationalflying forum for recreational flying discussions.

 

I agree that in many cases thread drift is detrimental to the original topic. I suppose we moderators should shoulder the blame for allowing that. We should correct for Drift and get the thread back On Track by intervening and asking those involved in the drift to get back on track.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I agree that in many cases thread drift is detrimental to the original topic. I suppose we moderators should shoulder the blame for allowing that. We should correct for Drift and get the thread back On Track by intervening and asking those involved in the drift to get back on track.

 

There's a fine line between losing the pedants and the actual people keeping the site alive and vibrant and attracting new people. Sometimes you just have to let the thread drift off a bit.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I agree that in many cases thread drift is detrimental to the original topic. I suppose we moderators should shoulder the blame for allowing that. We should correct for Drift and get the thread back On Track by intervening and asking those involved in the drift to get back on track.

 

I note DJ's comment and hope we don't put people off this site. As one of the worst thread drifters, I will try in future to keep my posts on course. 

 

On on the other hand, I see that Turbs doesn't mind a bit of going off topic.

 

Let the record show I have agreed with something he posted!

 

 

[Love to fly]

There's a fine line between losing the pedants

 

Umm such a friendly turn of phrase.  I don't think a little thread drift is a problem. But when it keeps going perhaps starting a new thread may make it easier for people looking at the site to find what they are looking for .......  If you are involved in the discussion on the thread drift you know what it is about, but if you come in a little later, or after not looking for awhile it isn't quite the same.  Generally I just move on rather than try and work out what is going on.  If that makes me a pedant well so be it.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Umm such a friendly turn of phrase.  I don't think a little thread drift is a problem. But when it keeps going perhaps starting a new thread may make it easier for people looking at the site to find what they are looking for .......  If you are involved in the discussion on the thread drift you know what it is about, but if you come in a little later, or after not looking for awhile it isn't quite the same.  Generally I just move on rather than try and work out what is going on.  If that makes me a pedant well so be it.

 

No that doesn't make you a pedant, but if a thread is consistently coming back up to the top you can usually bet that a lot of people are interested in it.