Plane Crash in the Hunter Valley

[Jabiru7252]

News just coming in about a plane crash and two deceased in the Hunter Valley, NSW.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Channel 9 witness reporting wing clap.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Looks like they’ve come down in the Southern part of the Ultralight Lane that wraps around the back of Williamtown RAAF base/ Newcastle Airport.

 

Aircraft other than ultralights also use the lane to get between the Hunter Valley and Taree.

 

the Lane is an awful piece of airspace with the controlled airspace at just 1,600 ft AMSL. 

 

It runs through a shallow, narrow valley.

 

on hot and windy days it can be a handful. 

 

 

 

[turboplanner]

https://www.nbnnews.com.au/2019/11/30/two-dead-in-ultra-light-hunter-plane-crash/

 

 

[kgwilson]

It is about time that our pathetic regulator provided coastal victor lanes here and at Coffs. Both can be extremely dangerous in windy conditions & Coffs is often clouded in making the journey a major detour over mean tiger country. I thought CASA was supposed to be about safety but I guess that is confined to the travelling public.

 

 

[paul_5666]

A coastal lane had been considered but probably not possible due to distance of coast to rwy threshold.

 

 

[shafs64]

More avoidable deaths. Very sad.

 

 

[JG3]

Witness quoted by Channel 9 - "This bloke is in trouble and the wings folded up and he just spiraled to the ground."

 

Big open clean paddock below..... 

 

There's more to this story than the lane issue.....

 

 

[shafs64]

Most would hand over a kidney to have a BRS in a time like that.

 

 

[alf jessup]

Most would hand over a kidney to have a BRS in a time like that.

 

Well shafs64,

 

Some who do have them still fly around with the safety pin in them which you won’t get out when the fhit hits the san.

 

The trike I sold to a bloke had a brs and he never deployed it as from what I am lead to believe it still had the pin in it.

 

I told him when he brought it to ensure the chute is armed and ready to go each flight.

 

He knew better I guess.

 

Sad but true.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Alf good points about having a BRS; it's just an expensive, heavy decoration unless integrated into your checklist.

 

I agree with Kevin about the light aircraft lanes; even if they aren't a factor in this tragedy, they have been in past ones and will be in future ones.

 

It beggars belief that little aeroplanes are forced to fly over dodgy country when safer airspace nearby may not be in use.

 

 

[kgwilson]

If it was a structural failure I hope that there is a very thorough investigation as to the cause and full details of the aircraft maintenance history is included, AND that it is published for the benefit of everyone.

 

There are ways to ensure safety even if the beach is close to the threshold. This can be a controlled lane like I used to use when transiting Auckland in NZ years ago. That was straight up the southern motorway at 500 feet under the approach path to the international airport & once clear climb to 1500 feet & continue straight over the city centre. You did need a squawk code though. If an aircraft was due they'd get you to orbit. The other option was over the top at 9500 feet but this is no good if there is low cloud. I preferred this to the victor lanes as the eastern one especially was pretty busy with all the Ardmore & North Shore training schools coming & going. It was good to have the front seat passenger keeping their eyes peeled as they come up pretty quick when the closing speed is 200 knots or more. On one trip I passed 6 or 7 other aircraft. In those days I was flying GA.

 

The difference is that Ultralights have always had access to controlled airspace in NZ.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It beggars belief that little aeroplanes are forced to fly over dodgy country when safer airspace nearby may not be in use.

 

The emphasis being on "may", but how do you know? If someone put a Virtual sign up where you were going when they were using it that might work, but at any time you could be facing a commercial flight, whether corporate jet or RPT aircraft, flying a holding pattern within its allocated box. And like us all, its pilot could be preoccupied and straying slightly out of his boundary. Take a look on the ATSB at Airprox incidents and Incursions, and you'll see why the space has to be reserved. Update your training and fit the required equipment/specification, and problem fixed.

 

 

[shafs64]

Well shafs64,

 

Some who do have them still fly around with the safety pin in them which you won’t get out when the fhit hits the san.

 

The trike I sold to a bloke had a brs and he never deployed it as from what I am lead to believe it still had the pin in it.

 

I told him when he brought it to ensure the chute is armed and ready to go each flight.

 

He knew better I guess.

 

Sad but true.

 

I find it odd the culture of i am a real man so i don't need a BRS. people joke about cirrus aircraft fly-ins where they all use there chutes to land. its a bit like the seat belt culture and smoking change takes time.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I was in a meeting with CASA, AirServices and the RAAF a couple of years ago when they extended the CTA SW of Williamtown. Initially a TRA, it has since been locked in. At the time everyone agreed that the YWMN airspace was an accident of time and it was declared it would be redesigned from first principles. That could have been 3 years ago but so far no real change. Like most military airspace’s, I suspect the restrictions are bigger and lower than they need to be and kept closed longer than they need to be. Luxury for the military, poverty for taxpayers.

 

The authorities said that a Victor up Stockton Beach was not viable because it was too close to the runway. 

Before they invested a billion dollars getting the base ready for the F35, they should have relocated to Tamworth.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Update your training and fit the required equipment/specification, and problem fixed.

 

We’ve been waiting many years for CASA to give us access to a CTA endorsement. Very happy to be properly equipped and do the training and take the test. Just one barnacle here . . . slow CASA bureaucrats. The promise that the RPL and RPC are equivalents has never been delivered. I suspect malice against RPC by the old hands at CASA. 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...at any time you could be facing a commercial flight, whether corporate jet or RPT aircraft, flying a holding pattern within its allocated box. And like us all, its pilot could be preoccupied and straying slightly out of his boundary. Take a look on the ATSB at Airprox incidents and Incursions, and you'll see why the space has to be reserved...

 

Valid point, Turbs.

 

Update your training and fit the required equipment/specification, and problem fixed.

 

Not everyone may be able to do this. 

 

So all is right in the world; our betters set the rules and they are always right?

 

Can you see no scope for change to allow small aircraft to avoid the Yowie country west of Coffs and Willie?

 

 

[SSCBD]

Back to the post was it a trike?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Before they invested a billion dollars getting the base ready for the F35, they should have relocated to Tamworth.

 

Crickey Don, you want us to be a target instead of you?

 

 

[turboplanner]

We’ve been waiting many years for CASA to give us access to a CTA endorsement. Very happy to be properly equipped and do the training and take the test. Just one barnacle here . . . slow CASA bureaucrats. The promise that the RPL and RPC are equivalents has never been delivered. I suspect malice against RPC by the old hands at CASA. 

 

Pick a Recreational Aviation school which operates out of CTA and talk to the Instructor. He'll tell you what to do including the aircraft equipment. PPL and PC students are flying in CTA before they do their first solo. It's not a them and us thing.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

Nearest is probably Bankstown- busier than I fancy. Camden less so but ideal would be Coffs Harbour, especially as my daughter lives there. Gets me the training but not the endorsement. That’s still mouldering in the pipeline.

 

as usual, Australia lags behind NZ and the USA and why? . . . a four letter acronym.

 

 

[slb]

Back to the post was it a trike?

 

Yes, a trike. Registered to SAFA according to reports.

 

RIP and sincere condolences to the families of the two men 

 

 

[turboplanner]

Nearest is probably Bankstown- busier than I fancy. Camden less so but ideal would be Coffs Harbour, especially as my daughter lives there. Gets me the training but not the endorsement. That’s still mouldering in the pipeline.

 

as usual, Australia lags behind NZ and the USA and why? . . . a four letter acronym.

 

I would suggest you do it at Bankstown; you need to be put under pressure to make the key locations and hopefully get an unexpected diversion to another point to make way for a medivac aircraft etc so you understand the importance of being on the ball and razor sharp at identifying where you are and where you need to be and when and why.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Valid point, Turbs.

 

Not everyone may be able to do this. 

 

So all is right in the world; our betters set the rules and they are always right?

 

Can you see no scope for change to allow small aircraft to avoid the Yowie country west of Coffs and Willie?

 

it seems crazy to me that the VFR Coastal route isn’t available. There’s nothing complicated about asking for a clearance and it’s not like you would be asking to enter an incredibly busy CTA like SYDNEY. 

 

I find the Controllers are always lovely and helpful....especially after I’ve told them I’m as old as the aeroplane ?

 

 

[paul_5666]

There are ways to ensure safety even if the beach is close to the threshold. This can be a controlled lane like I used to use when transiting Auckland in NZ years ago. 

 

There is a lane, it's called the coastal VFR route but it's in CTA which this PIC + plane may not have had access to. From the last airspace review in 2015 the CTR + CTA was considered too big for what they need but nothing has really been done about it. The Williamtown ATC are always friendly and very easy to get clearance or chat on the phone. I also think there is no good reason that RAAus can't get CTA access with appropriate training and equipment.