no Avgas - Rocky Gladstone Thangool

[Ironpot]

Make sure you check your notams - I nearly came unstuck!

 

 

[KRviator]

Lack of Avgas is not a NOTAM-able event. Best you not rely on that and check with the supplier directly.

 

 

[Yenn]

The Old Station and Monduran have fuel. Monduran is a card bowser, Old Station you need to phone ahead.

 

Gladstone stopped me folling 200l drums there years ago, so I never go there especially as they have a landing fee. Thangool has often had problems with the electronics.

 

Gayndah is another option in the area.

 

 

[Ironpot]

Lack of Avgas is not a NOTAM-able event. Best you not rely on that and check with the supplier directly.

 

Where does it say that? What’s your reference please?

 

 

[KRviator]

The ASA NOTAM quality guide. A perm change will be NOTAM'd though ASA makes no assurance to the accuracy of it. A temporary change or restriction does not require a NOTAM.

 

 

[Ironpot]

The ASA NOTAM quality guide. A perm change will be NOTAM'd though ASA makes no assurance to the accuracy of it. A temporary change or restriction does not require a NOTAM.

 

Well I can’t find the “quality guide” so I’ll quote the AIP back to you:-

 

“NOTAM provide information that is of direct operational significance and which may immediately affect aircraft operations”.

 

And, to my mind it follows that:

 

1. Where it says in ERSA that fuel is available at an airfield and it isn’t, then that would be of “direct operational significance”.

 

2. I’m sure you’ll agree that when an area that encompasses half of Central Queensland is devoid of fuel it might definitely “affect aircraft operations”. eg you could arrive with more than 60 minutes in your tanks and not be able to depart legally. Creating possible safety issues?

 

3. YBRK YTNG & YGLA are NOTAMed re AVGAS so clearly ASA doesn’t agree with you.

 

That is not to say that Pilots should not check if fuel is available when flying into airfields where they could come unstuck.

 

I get pissed off with being preached at when I was simply trying to notify local pilots who could be affected that there is a problem. I thought this site was about sharing information??

 

 

[Ironpot]

The Old Station and Monduran have fuel. Monduran is a card bowser, Old Station you need to phone ahead.

 

Gladstone stopped me folling 200l drums there years ago, so I never go there especially as they have a landing fee. Thangool has often had problems with the electronics.

 

Gayndah is another option in the area.

 

Thanks for this. I didn’t realise Old Station was an option. 

 

 

[Thruster88]

Well I can’t find the “quality guide” so I’ll quote the AIP back to you:-

 

“NOTAM provide information that is of direct operational significance and which may immediately affect 

 

I get pissed off with being preached at when I was simply trying to notify local pilots who could be affected that there is a problem. I thought this site was about sharing information??

 

You are right that lack of fuel should be in the NOTAMS. KRaviator was simply pointing out the reality that applies. To me that's sharing information, you can not rely on NOTAMS for fuel info.   

 

 

[Ironpot]

You are right that lack of fuel should be in the NOTAMS. KRaviator was simply pointing out the reality that applies. To me that's sharing information, you can not rely on NOTAMS for fuel info.   

 

At no point did I say rely on NOTAMs but I’m sure that you will agree they are useful sometimes? 

 

What I was querying was his statement that “Lack of Avgas is not a NOTAM-able event” . Whereby he proceeded to give a BS reply that does not correspond with either the AIP or factual events. It’s Important that users of this type of website don’t spread myths or it’s no better than Facetube.  

 

 

 

 

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Posted 6 hoursLack of Avgas is not a NOTAM-able event

 

 

 

 

[Matty]

Lack of Avgas is not a NOTAM-able event. Best you not rely on that and check with the supplier directly.

 

It can be NOTAM-ed now. If an aerodrome operator has an entry in ERSA and for some reason cannot supply, they can issue a NOTAM.  It changed earlier this year. 

 

 

[derekliston]

I can only add that when the fuel bowser at Warwick was out of service I queried with the council why there was no NOTAM and they said it was not required, so technically you could be stuck with insufficient fuel to leave the airfield!

 

 

[KRviator]

Well I can’t find the “quality guide”...

 

Just wondering, did you try Googling it? It is listed in the first hyperlink when you search "ASA Notam Quality Guide", but as search isn't your forte' allow me to provide you with the actual document...Click here. And when you go through the document,  you will find the following:

 

 

 

10.1.11 Fuel NOTAM

 

ERSA INTRO- Handling Services and Facilities states: ‘When information is received from the relevant aerodrome authority, a NOTAM will be issued notifying changes to refuelling information. However, Airservices Australia takes no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of refuelling information’. Note: Temporary fuel restrictions at aerodromes to re-fuel bowsers and tankers does not require a NOTAM

 

If no fuel is available at your destination, then it wont immediately affect your operation, will it? I agree it should be there, but it isn't required to be there and when people have tried to have it included, they have been told it is not NOTAM-able as it doesn't directly or immediately impact operations. If you are going to quote the AIP, you can at least not cherrypick the points to suit your argument, for example, also in the AIP, you will find the following:

 

When information is received from the relevant aerodrome authority, a NOTAM will be issued notifying changes to refuelling operation. However, Airservices Australia takes no responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of refuelling information

 

Now, from that statement, ASA is distancing themselves from there being a NOTAM for fuel, or not having a NOTAM for no fuel, hence my comment lack of fuel isn't NOTAM-able. Indeed, there are many uncertified aerodromes or ALA's that may not have an ADO or even authorisation to actually issue a NOTAM.

 

What I was querying was his statement that “Lack of Avgas is not a NOTAM-able event” . Whereby he proceeded to give a BS reply that does not correspond with either the AIP or factual events. It’s Important that users of this type of website don’t spread myths or it’s no better than Facetube.

 

A reply that you don't like because you CBF searching the very first link that comes up on Google doesn't make it a BS reply, indeed, as you will find from said document, temporary issues with fuel availability still don't require a NOTAM and up until the start of the year, per Matty, you couldn't issue a NOTAM for fuel, even if you wanted to! It is still not required, though at least it isn't forbidden now. As for your "being pissed off" I couldn't give a rats arse. I'm not here to be your friend, and if you think that comment up there^^ was you "being preached to", I think you need to get a bit more time up on internet newsgroups and forums and a thicker skin until you do!

 

And, FWIW, derekliston raised this exact issue two years ago, about the SDRC and lack of fuel at Warwick, and was provided a reference in another of my posts to the NOTAM Originators manual - since removed - that explicitly stated NOTAMs would not be issued, however, now leave that up to the relevant ASA manager, according to the ADO NOTAM Quality manual.

 

NOTAM will not be issued on changes to or limitations on availability of fuel, oil, and oxygen at civil aerodromes unless the situation is sufficiently serious to warrant NOTAM action e.g. code BLACK circumstances at major aerodromes, or long term fuel availability due flooding in remote areas. The Network Coordination Centre (NCC) Line Manager will be the deciding authority. Requests for consideration should be submitted through the NOTAM Office.

 

That text is almost a cut-and-paste from the original "Notam Originators Manual" that forbade such 'fuel NOTAMS' with the difference being they now allow the NCC manager to consider it is sufficiently serious to include. And just in case you can't find that document, HERE IT IS...