Plane down after leaving Shellharbour

[IBails]

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6545947/pilot-dead-in-plane-crash-after-leaving-from-shellharbour-airport/

 

 

[kgwilson]

Just FYI if you are posting a URL (web site) click on the link icon ( looks like a chain) & paste the URL details there. Then when someone clicks on it they will be taken directly to that web site like this

 

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6545947/pilot-dead-in-plane-crash-after-leaving-from-shellharbour-airport/

 

 

[KRviator]

Just FYI if you are posting a URL (web site) click on the link icon ( looks like a chain) & paste the URL details there. Then when someone clicks on it they will be taken directly to that web site like this

 

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6545947/pilot-dead-in-plane-crash-after-leaving-from-shellharbour-airport/

 

And if you want to get really fancy, you can alter the test displayed here to something more relevant to the discussion at hand- but not the actual URL you're pasting - So it looks like this by changing the "Link Text" in the box that kgwilson mentioned.

 

 

[red750]

I post lots of links in the Aircraft Showcase, and the procedure here is just the same.

 

Copy the link or URL address, then, in the reply entry box of the thread, click on the LINK icon in the toolbar (circled below).

 

 

The Link box will be displayed as shown. Paste the URL in the top line as per the sample.

 

In the lower box, enter a brief description, eg "Click here for details", or leave blank to display the URL in your reply, as it appears in kgwilson's example.

 

 

Click on the "Insert into post" button.

 

 

[red750]

Back to the subject of the thread. There seems to be a trend that pilots and passengers killed in these accidents are predominantly over 60. How can we arrest this trend?

 

 

[mnewbery]

If private pilots over sixty are the ones that fly the most, it makes sense that their number would be reported more often. Another question to ask is "what do these fatalities have in common?"

 

Queensland transport ran a "fatal six" campaign decades ago. The six were:

 

fatigue

 

poor maintenance

 

inattention/inexperience 

 

tailgating 

 

weather; and

 

alcohol or other drugs

 

Speed was never mentioned. Neither was was being too old

 

 

[old man emu]

You've got to include speed or else the State Budget will never balance.

 

I Demerit point to OME for continuing to drift away from the original topic.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Back to the subject of the thread. There seems to be a trend that pilots and passengers killed in these accidents are predominantly over 60. How can we arrest this trend?

 

Unfortunately it will correct itself.

 

 

[Thruster88]

If private pilots over sixty are the ones that fly the most, it makes sense that their number would be reported more often. Another question to ask is "what do these fatalities have in common?"

 

Queensland transport ran a "fatal six" campaign decades ago. The six were:

 

fatigue

 

poor maintenance

 

inattention/inexperience 

 

tailgating 

 

weather; and

 

alcohol or other drugs

 

Speed was never mentioned. Neither was was being too old

 

Poor maintenance would be in 6th position or lower on the list for both cars and trucks  and recreational aviation.

 

In aviation ATSB reports show what is really happening. 

 

 

[mnewbery]

Another parallel to consider. Didn't a bunch of retreads who survived Honda CB750s Z1s and GS1000s come back after their kids left and write off things like K1200RS ( ssses) and ZZRs in the 1990s?

 

Is it possible a bunch of retirees are getting back into flying under similar circumstances?

 

its an open question

 

 

[onetrack]

There's a known trend locally, of males in the early retirement stage, investing in HD's to "live the dream" - without previously having had big bike experience.

 

They take up a lot of hospital beds with major injuries when they just run wide on sharp bends and clean up trees, cars, trucks, etc. More than a few took their last ride on a recent HD purchase.

 

I haven't seen any information on whether this crash was an RA or VH-reg aircraft, or even the make/model of aircraft. The news paragraph that refers to ATSB being notified, appears to indicate a VH-reg aircraft.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Not sure about aircraft , unless we know all the crash reports etc.

 

But a heap of us kept riding and still enjoy it. Lots of 50 plus riders doing fine on 200hp BMW and Ducati bikes. But sure it requires skill and good reflexes, a bit of fitness and most of all a large dose of wisdom when using the throttle.

 

Any rider who has spent eons away from bikes needs to take it slow HP wise and move up once you master the docile bike. Older returned rider deaths are unfortunately common. They often may not have been great riders 30 years ago etc. Power in new bikes is insanely fast for the sports models. Better than full grandprix bikes of 30 years ago. 

 

They make foolish riders feel great but the rider not the bike is always getting beyond their limits.

 

Some have skill levels that should be confined to shopping trolleys.

 

Lots of younger blokes with far bigger egos than their skill and brains can support also keep launching like a missile at the horizon, and meet dog as well.

 

With planes I expect the correlation might also show a similar trend if only related to large gaps in flying of decades and low hrs and low proficiency when returning to flying. A bit like any high skill pursuit where death stalks mistakes. 

 

I have no idea if this relates to any particular accident for RAA.

 

 

[giantkingsquid]

I heard on the ABC news this morning it was an RAA registered Bristell.

 

 

[M61A1]

If private pilots over sixty are the ones that fly the most, it makes sense that their number would be reported more often. Another question to ask is "what do these fatalities have in common?"

 

Queensland transport ran a "fatal six" campaign decades ago. The six were:

 

fatigue

 

poor maintenance

 

inattention/inexperience 

 

tailgating 

 

weather; and

 

alcohol or other drugs

 

Speed was never mentioned. Neither was was being too old

 

I worry about the sort of bureaucrats that make lists like that......Only a couple of those things ever had any relevance. For example , tailgating, while it apparently annoys a lot of people, is not usually fatal. Poor maintenance is rarely a factor also, similarly in aviation. If weather is an issue, you can probably lump that in with inexperience/ inattention.

 

I foresee crashes occurring on the new Toowoomba range crossing. Long sections of nice wide smooth road, limited to 90k's and average speed cameras will have drivers falling asleep. The only mitigating factor is that it's divided by a concrete barrier so at least they won't veer into oncoming traffic. But when it happens, I bet they lower the limit further.

 

Another parallel to consider. Didn't a bunch of retreads who survived Honda CB750s Z1s and GS1000s come back after their kids left and write off things like K1200RS ( ssses) and ZZRs in the 1990s?

 

Is it possible a bunch of retirees are getting back into flying under similar circumstances?

 

its an open question

 

It's still happening. I think it's a currency thing as well as experience. New Harleys are more likely purchased by lawyers and such these days. They do their course that allows them to ride the larger bikes, they have the training , but not the experience. They aren't hard to pick, just by their riding style.

 

I think the importance of currency is underestimated, whether you're on a bike, a car or an aircraft. I used to ride about two hours every day, but now maybe once a week, and I can really feel the difference. I now fly more than I ride and I can pick the difference if I've been out of the cockpit for a couple of weeks.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

A friend is in hospital this week. He was stationary on his bike to make a right turn and a car skittled him from behind.  He had just finished restoring his Royal Enfoeld. RAA flying is safer I reckon.

 

 

[facthunter]

This sort of "accident" is too common. I instruct riders to NEVER pull up to make a turn right if there's no dedicated turn lane. Even stopping at red lights is dangerous. The tin tops just run into you and continue to turn in front of you and pull out at roundabouts.  On a Harley you can enjoy the bike without riding fast. They don't promote  a "racing Image" and most "cruiser" type bikes are Not ridden at crazy speeds. I gave up riding with  the Ulysses group years ago .They are lovely people but many can't ride and they scare me as I don't want to witness deaths. They do longish rides and eat at bakeries. They don't particularly ride Harleys. They ride anything and everything.  Some bikes have a particularly ridiculous Power Output and few riders of any age can ride them to their limit. The NEW road barriers are deadly for motorcycles and the government know it. They CAN be provided with a shield that stops the wire ropes from slicing the riders up, but choose to not do it except in rare cases.. Roads often have bad potholes, even in major highways which would ruin an alloy wheel and there are branches, leaves and gravel/  blue metal patches  that should not be there. Road repairs leave a lot of excess gravel  to smash windscreens and make corners unsafe for bikes. That sort of practice would not be done in other countries which took safety seriously. More prominent notification of the speed limits would help too. If you miss the only sign you are guessing until another one comes along .Some are hidden behind trees that have obscured them  Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

The NEW road barriers are deadly for motorcycles and the government know it. They CAN be provided with a shield that stops the wire ropes from slicing the riders up, but choose to not do it except in rare cases

 

I've followed up this one closely from the time bikies first started panicing. he cable barriers are mauch better than Armco because they act like an aircract carrier arresting cable and absorb most of the speed energy. The weak spot is still the posts, and flexible collars are being fitted to posts at some locations.    The "choosers" you refer to are local Councils, State Authorities or Contractors.  In one safety discussion we have where five people had been killed after flipping over a barrier the Manufacturer joined in the conversation and said they provided safety equipment which wasn't always fitted by contractors (as in thrown out in the rubbish).

 

 

[facthunter]

 I don't believe they were" panicking"at all.  They had accurate information from overseas and if you see what happens to a car when it runs along and get deflected back onto the road I would wonder why you think a rider would not be killed. Riders go under armco and a barrier is sometimes fitted below to prevent that. The occasional situation is done right, so they do know what's right/best. The people who commission the work are responsible for the quality and fitness for purpose.of it. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

Queensland transport ran a "fatal six" campaign decades ago. The six were:

 

fatigue

 

poor maintenance

 

inattention/inexperience 

 

tailgating 

 

weather; and

 

alcohol or other drugs

 

Speed was never mentioned. Neither was was being too old

 

Looking at the list, I'd say that it relates mainly to heavy vehicles, although fatigue, inattention/inexperience, A&OD would definitely apply to all drivers, especially the people who try to drive from Melbourne to the Gold Coast in one hit.

 

Does it apply to flying? 

 

Poor maintenance? - Annuals and 100 hourly's if done according to established standards of good practice eliminate this one.

 

Inexperience? - We all agree that lack of hours and thousands of hours can be factors. Weekend puddle jumpers are generally always on the ball.

 

Weather? - This has to be related to inexperience and get-home-itis.

 

A&OD? - Greater knowledge and the cultural change brought about by RBT would limit this one.

 

 

[facthunter]

 Reduced  reaction time in a plane will mainly show on slippery taildraggers or gusty conditions landings and are more likely to embarrass rather than kill anyone. What kills people is bad decisions of a planning/operational nature. No effective risk management. Can't see why aging people would be worse there than the young  often more inclined to be risk takers group. It's easy to just say the old are incapable. I think it's more relevant on the road  where things can happen real fast and need instinctive fast reactions at times. Some of these can cause a problem so skills and experience and concentration come into it.  Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

 I don't believe they were" panicking"at all.  They had accurate information from overseas and if you see what happens to a car when it runs along and get deflected back onto the road I would wonder why you think a rider would not be killed. Riders go under armco and a barrier is sometimes fitted below to prevent that. The occasional situation is done right, so they do know what's right/best. The people who commission the work are responsible for the quality and fitness for purpose.of it. Nev

 

Well, apparently they are not dying or being dissected by the cables, which is a surprise to many people, but a LOT of lives have been saved, hence Victorian authorities installing thousands of kilometres of them. For a start they prevent you coming to an instant stop wrapped around a gum tree.

 

Time to phase bikes off the road anyway; car owners are being discriminated against by having to install thousands of dollars worth of things like armoured windscreens, collapsible steering columns, progressive crumple, seat belts, air bags, side intrustion bars and a host of ANCAP electrics only to have their mirro ripped off by someone flying past sitting on top of a high powered engine.

 

 

[red750]

Someone said it correctly when they said some people, including car drivers, should not be allowed in charge of a shopping trolley. I witnessed a very minor bingle yesterday that could have been worse. Intersection of two major roads, traffic lights with turn cycle. Green right turn arrows come on, turn lane starts to move. So did a car going straight ahead in the opposite direction, through the red light. Both drivers realised and braked before colliding. The guy in the second car in the turn lane was a bit slow to react and nudged the first car that had stopped. Maybe two insurance claims, but the car responsible went on their way.

 

 

[Yenn]

Meanwhile.

 

What happened to the plane from Shellharbour?

 

 

[Bill]

He's a well known & respected Bathurst recreational pilot, flying a Bristell. Appears he may have tracked direct from Albion Park to Bathurst, which took him over some very rough tiger country (my preferred route involves a dog leg via Taralga).  There is a huge bushfire which would have been east of his track, but I imagine visibility would have been affected. I've been told the ballistic chute was deployed.  Condolences to family & friends.

 

 

[Love to fly]

Ask Love to Fly

 

Helpful.  Not ... mean .. perhaps