Student Pilot Emergency Landing - Didn't Switch Fuel Tanks

[kgwilson]

I have 3 fuel tanks. 100 litres in the fuselage & 35 in each wing. There are no gauges in the wing tanks. When I go long distance I use fuel out of the main tank till it is about 1/4 full. I then  pump fuel from the left tank to the main. It takes about 20 minutes to drain the tank & I see the fuel gauge going up. I know it is empty because the Facet pump is quite loud when it begins to pump air. I do not notice any difference in the handing characteristics of the aircraft at all. It will still fly straight & level on the same elevator trim. I have no rudder trim for reasons I have stated before. If I haven't landed by now for a comfort stop when the tank gets to 1/2 full on the gauge I will transfer the entire right hand tank into the main until the Facet starts to clatter again.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's located on the top and max suction part of the wing KR.. You a cannot fly with a fuel cap off, or not properly sealed. Especially with a bladder tank that may be not located as well as it was  when new. Nev

 

 

[KRviator]

Did get the venturi part, but I couldn't get my head around the vacuum being strong enough to pop the bladder clips, I hadn't heard of that trait before as regards the high-wing Cessna.

 

Unless someone wants to swap a Cardinal for an RV-9, I think I'll stick to my RV's wet wings! ?

 

 

[BirdDog]

My check list says to select the tank with the most fuel for take-off. A rule you break at your own risk.

 

You beat me to it!!  How can you take off on an empty tank, if you have appropriate check lists!!  If there is no check list in that bird that confirms to check which tank has more, and which tank is selected, then the school should be investigated.

 

 

[Yenn]

To have to take of on the fullest tank is usually sensible, but if one tank is full and the other three quarters full it would just be blindly following instructions, rather than using sense to not consider using the lesser tank. There could be compelling reasons to use the lesser tank, such as poorer quality fuel, or suspected poorer fuel.

 

Rules are made to be broken, so they say, but I prefer rules are made to be questioned.

 

 

[facthunter]

Rules are made for the guidance of wise men. There's usually a reason for them and you should have a good reason to ignore a good rule but the PIC is in command and should manage the situation in the "most safe"  manner and know the systems of the planes you fly. Accidental incorrect tank selection. features a lot in fuel related incidents/ accidents.. "Prove" a tank before you do a take off as a failure there will not give you much height to start trouble shooting. Some tanks don't feed reliably when the nose is in a high attitude and /or you may be accelerating if they are a bit low in fuel qty. Applies in a go around as well and fuel is incorporated in most prelanding checks. Nev

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

The tanks will only cross feed on BOTH if the ball is out of the middle. Banking is irrelevant if the ball is in the middle. Some more revision on aerodynamics is indicated for some people.

 

Except if the fuel-return line sends fuel to a different tank to the one that was being used. With non-fuel injected Foxbats, you are supposed to only use one tank at a time because you can end up losing fuel as it is pumped to a tank that is already full. 

 

 

[BirdDog]

Except if the fuel-return line sends fuel to a different tank to the one that was being used. With non-fuel injected Foxbats, you are supposed to only use one tank at a time because you can end up losing fuel as it is pumped to a tank that is already full. 

 

Yep!  My Sporty is like that!  It bleeds back into the left tank only.  So my manual states (if full) to use the left tank first.  Of course, all of that goes out the window in emergency situations of bad fuel etc etc. But under Ops Normal, fuel management is part of the check lists and pilot safety procedures.  Even running off each tank on the ground to ensure fuel flow is appropriate from both tanks.

 

If I follow my check lists (Which I do) then I should never take off on an empty tank.  The check list will prevent that!  But of course, if the pilot does not follow it.... well... Yup!!!

 

 

[derekliston]

It can happen to the best, even when trying their best. I can’t quote dates, but a lot of years ago a BOAC/BA crew managed to make a fuel tank selection which at the time was legitimate, but shut down all four engines in a VC10.

 

 

[facthunter]

That takes real skill. IF they were the best of the best, God help all the rest." EVERYONE makes mistakes" doesn't cut it in aviation.. Checks are designed to cut the human error factor.. but I've seen them done poorly. Just knowing the words to respond quickly is not good enough. You must perform what the words describe otherwise it's just going through the motions and should fool nobody. Nev

 

 

[onetrack]

a lot of years ago a BOAC/BA crew managed to make a fuel tank selection which at the time was legitimate, but shut down all four engines in a VC10.

 

 

 

 

That was G-ASGL, in 1974. The flight engineer was the major instigator of the problem there.

 

https://www.vc10.net/History/incidents_and_accidents.html#G-ASGL Fuel starvation incident 1974

 

 

[pmccarthy]

You may have avgas in one tank and mogas in the other. One may be a better drop for your engine on takeoff.

 

 

[nomadpete]

However you slice it, I'll bet there is one new pilot who will never again fail to perform his preflight checks or fuel management checks.

 

We all have to try our hardest to prevent 'blind spot' memory failures.

 

 

[facthunter]

One would hope so Pete, but some actual cases prove otherwise. Broadly speaking it's an issue of situational awareness, rather that learning the "Right way" for all situations. An aeroplane is unique in many ways and less forgiving than many/ MOST other forms of motion.  A mistake can be a result of complacency in a familiar situation or uncertainty with an un-familiar situation. Before moving any switch or control one should be certain what it DOES.. In any professional flying show fuel management is a 100% pass required subject. . SOME fuel systems are a crisis going somewhere to show up . Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

It's located on the top and max suction part of the wing KR.. You a cannot fly with a fuel cap off...

 

Nev I discovered this to be true after being distracted by onlookers while refuelling. Somehow I forgot to secure the cap, which is just behind max low pressure point. Several litres of expensive juice was sucked out during the climb out. The noise didn't last long after I switched from Both to the uncapped tank.

 

 

[tafisama]

The tanks will only cross feed on BOTH if the ball is out of the middle. Banking is irrelevant if the ball is in the middle. Some more revision on aerodynamics is indicated for some people.

 

I will be doing Aerodynamics around April.

 

 

[Drew Ford]

There was the unfortunate case of an early model  Skyfox hired to a Solo Student, who practiced his left & right turns, after doing a prolonged turn, he noticed one wing tank was empty, thinking he will not make it back to base, he decided  to put it down in a paddock, resulting in substantial damage to the aircraft.  Tears.

 

I remember in California a pilot did a refuel the night before his flight so he could get away first light in the morning.

 

The fuel gauges read back to front, that is, when Full,  the needles went to the left!

 

However someone observed the refueling, and when the pilot left,  the thief emptied both tanks resulting in the fuel gauge needles going all the way to the right. (which on most aircraft would indicate full fuel.) 

 

The next morning the Pilot did not pick this up in his checks as he knew he had refuled the aircraft the night before. The result was tears.

 

Need to be careful not to slip into the habit of doing checks robotically.

 

Take your time and actually look at the item you are checking.

 

A Chief flying Instructor in N.Z. Ardmore, was caught out doing what he always told his students never to do, that is to assume an item is checked without actually checking it.

 

 Both of us got into a PA 28 (I was converting my Oz PPL to a NZ PPL.) The CFI said   "I will show you how to get to the other end of the field, it was a long taxi around with numerous clearances, he did the take off checks, and when it came to FUEL ON,  he touched the tap on the floor, but did not actually look at the taps position-( it was in the OFF position.) So after our run up, we line up,  got our take off clearance, full power, then just about lift off,  the aircraft pulled firmly to the right, then the engine quit!

 

We narrowly avoided hitting the base of the Tower and ended up off the strip on the grass.

 

Post flight analysis.

 

After 20 minutes of searching for the problem the CFI found the fuel tap in the OFF position.

 

There were many expletives used, which are not printable, but the CFI said the School has a policy of never turning the FUEL OFF during the day, only at the last flight of the day. 

 

Well that solved why the engine quit, but what caused the Piper to firmly turn to the right at lift off?.

 

Another 20 minutes of investigating control surfaces etc, etc, the problem was located in the cockpit.

 

This Piper Cherokee had an auto Pilot fitted and the ON /OFF switch was on the panel directly in front of the throttle. So when you applied full forward, throttle, your knuckles  hit the front panel and turned the Auto Pilot ON .  

 

The bug on the Auto Pilot was on a setting to the right of the runway heading, so as the aircraft was ready the leap into the air the Auto Pilot was ready to turn onto the preset heading.

 

The diagnosis was correct, the problem was in the cockpit. The Pilot in command.!

 

No one hurt and no damage, except for some pride perhaps.

 

But it could have ended up differently. 

 

The long taxi to the other end of the field certainly was a factor, had we taken off at the Club House end of the main runway we would have had fuel exhaustion past the point of no return.

 

So it can happen to the best of us.!

 

And don't trust something because its brand new.

 

A new Aircraft was being assembled at the airfield by its happy owners. 

 

By mid day all was ready for start up, after several attempts the Rotax fired, the aircraft was tied down and the throttle set to idle.

 

The motor was left running, whilst maps, headings, weather, was checked and rechecked, and periodically the CHT was checked, all was fine.

 

First leg of the trip was Camden to Mudgee across the Blue Mountains.

 

Then suddenly after about half an hour the engine suddenly stopped!!

 

The next day it was found to have aluminium shavings in the fuel line!!

 

If they had taken Off immediately after assembly, they probably would have come down around  Katoomba in Tiger country.

 

My saying is that you may not always get into the air, but if you do, one thing is for sure,  you will always come back down again, and how that will happen largely depends on the Pilot in Command.

 

Cheers, stay alive and fly safe.

 

 

[BirdDog]

Great post Drew.  Plenty of lessons learnt.

 

I am still surprised sometimes in discussions when I hear someone utter the words... "I have been flying for more than 20 years..., and mostly it's to brag how they have been doing this way or that, and never had a problem.

 

I am one of those guys who checks everything, and runs every check list.  Like you said, you will always come back down - I just try to make sure it's under my control!

 

 

[facthunter]

Once anybody thinks they have no more to learn they start to become an increased risk. Cutting corners will catch even the "so called experts".  Do the checks in "deed" as well as words. Not having enough fuel and switching what you have incorrectly is  still far too common.. There is no emergency lane in the sky to pull over into and wait for assistance and there are times when your motor is critically linked to your survival.   Flying for a "period" may only mean doing the same things for 20 years . You may have even gotten worse  than you once were if you don't periodically critique your performance in all aspects  and strive to improve and LEARN more..Nev

 

 

[onetrack]

Familiarity slowly breeds bad habits, when operating machinery of any kind. You must continually check yourself, or better still, be checked by others, that bad habits are not creeping in.

 

I never cease to be amazed by the number of older, highly experienced people, who kill themselves fairly regularly, whilst in control of fairly complex machines - be they ground-based, or aviation-based.

 

Then after the event, you speak to others who worked with them, and you begin to pick up that they regularly developed shortcuts, or had developed bad habits, that they should have been pulled up on.

 

Accident reports are full of dissection of why a deceased victim did what they did - when it's patently obvious they should never have done it, and what they did, went against all the training they had done.

 

Then there's the creeping effect of ageing neurons, whereby the brain isn't as sharp as it used to be, and your concentration lags, you spend way too long fixated on one problem, when an obvious one is not seen, and ignored.

 

 

[facthunter]

All true, but the "Ace of the Base" mentality is usually younger people.  Accidents only happen to OTHER people, not to ME.  attitude.

 

     You need reasonable reflex  actions to fly  or play tennis etc., but in Aviation the "decisions" that bring you undone usually aren't the ones you make instantly. It's usually bad planning, bad policy and bad management of the operation in itself. A positive risk management policy needs to be involved.

 

 IF XYZ happens what do I have left to operate on? Have I optimised my options in a particular situation?   Is there a plan B.?  Nev

 

 

[danny_galaga]

I learnt to fly in a Warrior. For navs it was 30 minutes on one tank, then switch and 60 minutes each tank from then on. I always thought that was how it would be done universally?

 

 

[lee-wave]

I was taught if the engine quits in flight (when checking out in a PA28 Ardmore 1975) ...no hesitation... switch tanks and fuel pump on.  Then do your force landing drills, best glide speed, landing area etc...then attempt engine start.   Are not these things being taught nowadays?

 

 

[turboplanner]

I learnt to fly in a Warrior. For navs it was 30 minutes on one tank, then switch and 60 minutes each tank from then on. I always thought that was how it would be done universally?

 

Fuel management needs to be done on every aircraft, but it's not uinversally the same because of the thousands of different systems each requiring their own procedure. The POH is a start, but best to study the aircraft you will be flying rather than adopt a universal rule of thumb. You can be caught out applying principles for a full draining system when flying an aircraft that exhausts fuel when flying and extended turn and so on.