kasper Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 This give an idea of the opportunity for rorting The only people making a success of the VET Fee Scheme are the unscrupulous graduates of the Diploma in Pocket Lining. https://www.smh.com.au/education/vocational-education-how-the-shonks-and-shysters-took-control-20150925-gjujt5.html Have you noticed that a lot of the operators of these dodgy "institutes of learning" are "recent immigrants" from the sub-continent? Yes and no. The Soar Aviation/Box Hill aviation training VET course up has two aspects: 1. Overall potential of poor quality and/or poor value training 2. AUSTRALIAN students accessing VET fee help to gain a loan to access the education in 1. No overseas student can access VET fee help so the graphic is in no way related to the comments on how much $$ the Australian Govt has forked out in loans to people within Soar/Box Hill or how much debt has been left with Australian VET fee students where their training is incomplete and/or they have washed out. In terms of 1. I have no knowledge of why ASQA cancelled the accreditation ... but I've previously worked within a VET provider and ASQA do not take it away from a minor technical breach - its taken away only with VERY good reason and LOTS of evidence. The real problem with VET Fee help is the way payment of the loan amounts comes to the provider ... its pretty much all up front for each period of study ... and with an aviation practical course oh my thats a lot of money. Note - the VET provider I worked at made a concious decision at board level NOT to allow VET Fee loans to students, everyone had to either pay their fees (or get their employer to) and we provided payment plans to allow direct payment to us in installments without interest. Not all VET providers are ripping the system off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Not all VET providers are ripping the system off. Of course not. But where do the providers who do not rip off the scheme come from? They certainly have a lot of eucalyptus oil in their veins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 Much beer was drunk. Up in the NW it was rum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Up in the NW it was rum! More likely metho and Sal Vital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, turboplanner said: More likely metho and Sal Vital I brought a new level of civility to the Upper Gascoyne...the white lady wasn’t so popular then. and that’s the Birdsville Pub which I first saw 8 years earlier in 1969 when it was Still wild and untamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 I brought a new level of civility to the Upper Gascoyne...the white lady wasn’t so popular then. and that’s the Birdsville Pub which I first saw 8 years earlier in 1969 when it was Still wild and untamed. It's pretty tame now - like the Mooroopna Pub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Woo hoo! Mooroopna rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 The Daly Waters pub is worth a visit, and the Star in Newcastle in it's heyday. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Is it time to apply the 1 in 60 rule and get back on track? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Beer is Best. It used to be compulsory. That's when people could hold their liquor. Narrow is the path to righteousness.. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 I brought a new level of civility to the Upper Gascoyne...the white lady wasn’t so popular then. and that’s the Birdsville Pub which I first saw 8 years earlier in 1969 when it was Still wild and untamed. Ted was a lot younger then, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 He seems to have lasted though. Last time I saw him he had a show at a place south of Alice Springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Yes, I think Indians are the biggest immigrant group at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 I would love to hear from anyone who can help me with: VCAT case references Names of applicants and contact details information regarding responses fro Box Hill Institute or SOAR regarding refunds thanks kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Interesting tidbit from Prune concerning why SOAR's originator left his original employer after "disagreement over business plan" Sacked over fleet suggestion I'm going to somewhat lend my support to Neel (originator of SOAR) on this. It is true what he says. I assume that its me he is talking about. Neel did work for me at MFT after leaving another school. He did approach me with a business model. At the time, I had my own business model, which differed somewhat to his. I was happy with mine, and it provided me with the work environment that was important to me. He believed very strongly in his concept, I wouldn't budge on mine. We parted ways. There was slightly more to it, but nothing sinister. The article was primarily about something else. If he was to summarise it in a sentence, as he did, he is being truthful. Do I have any regrets. None at all. I will say, he had a plan, he executed it, and he achieved the business model he was after. Not many achieve that. Are we on each others Christmas card list, maybe not, but I must somewhat take my hat off to him. Here's the link to the very long thread at PRUNE. Worth reading. https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/626527-flying-school-owner-makes-afr-rich-list-7.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Maybe he'll be putting his hat back on now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankus1aust Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 A very enterprising young man - so good on him for that.... Selling to PEs probably not the best way to go.. because they, like VCs want to see very good returns and growth... and unless he was in cash flow drought territory, the services of a board of directors or business mentors may have been a better approach... This is a pump up and sell exercise. Everything at Soar is working from the lowest denominator of cost and is a business model we have seen in other industries that delivers for the owner, and not the students. I have been waiting for the homing pigeons to return for this enterprise for a while. Frankly, it's overdue. Lots of empathy for the students and no sympathy for the owner. This industry has enough to deal with without this kind of operation "asset stripping" the training industry. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 The Indian business model; 1. Find and target people with money. 2. Spin them a yarn that sounds highly plausible. 3. Rip them off mercilessly. Funnily enough, the missus remarked - after watching several TV documentaries about India, and the shows following a few desperately poor individual Indians, in their attempts to get ahead financially; "They are utterly ruthless people - and they are more ruthless towards each other, than they are to foreigners!" The franchisee system is another classic example of corporate rorting, although it doesn't normally involve Govt funding ripoffs. But it's typical of these so-called "business models", where the aim is to shaft the lower levels (the franchisees), to ensure the upper levels of the "business model" receive renumeration on a par with bank CEO's. Some of the franchisees agreements are nothing short of agreements of permanent financial slavery. These people make the robber barons of earlier centuries look positively benevolent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Yes, often owners of old people's home own sea going yachts. IF the SCENE includes a gov't subsidy, in my view such a profit is just NOT on.. Spivving the government is considered "Fair Game" by ,many but it's OUR money Ralph. that's being rorted. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NT5224 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Been following this story with interest. It seems like some dreadful outcome for the poor young people who put their faith and dollars (their dollars? Our dollars?) into this Neel fella and his ‘business model’. At a time when we all agree we need to encourage more youngsters into aviation this kind of rort can’t be helping. Hopefully this with help deter further abuses. We can all learn lessons from this, including RAA! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 The Indian business model; 1. Find and target people with money. 2. Spin them a yarn that sounds highly plausible. 3. Rip them off mercilessly. Sounds like either a pyramid scheme or a Ponzi scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 OME - The business "Model" ranges from Indian scammers utilising "Windows virus" scams, "Tax Office owed" threat scams, "Phishing" email and SMS reply scams - right through to Alan Bonds scamming corporate behaviour. Bond found out quickly that there were a multitude of "high wealth" individuals in the world, who represented access to "easy money", and large amounts of it. He joined exclusive Yacht Clubs to gain first name access to these individuals. Then he discovered that many companies and corporations were sitting on substantial reserves of cash, that were under-utilised - and the companies and corporations cash reserves could be raided by takeovers and mergers. He wasn't alone in using this "Business Model", he was just the largest practitioner of the process. Along the way he also ripped off tens of thousands of reasonably wealthy individuals, who he coerced into buying his companies shares - often because these investors shared the same religion as Bond. These people ended up with worthless investments, thanks to Bonds perpetual activities of "robbing Peter to pay Paul". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotSoSuperSonic Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Been following this story with interest. It seems like some dreadful outcome for the poor young people who put their faith and dollars (their dollars? Our dollars?) into this Neel fella and his ‘business model’. At a time when we all agree we need to encourage more youngsters into aviation this kind of rort can’t be helping. Hopefully this with help deter further abuses. We can all learn lessons from this, including RAA! Alan Don’t forget the equity fund that owns 50%, plus any other associates that may have been getting money channeled to them. It’d be interesting to see the level of involvement of RAAus in all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Some background reading: https://australianaviation.com.au/2018/07/soar-aviation-sells-50-stake-to-private-equity-firm/ (wonder how the investors are feeling now?) https://www.smartcompany.com.au/entrepreneurs/influencers-profiles/soar-aviation-neel-khokhani-flight-school/ https://www.afr.com/young-rich/light-touch-helps-aviator-s-ambitions-take-off-20191001-p52wh2 Quote in PPRuNe from post #40 in this thread (attributed to user GlenB) https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/626527-flying-school-owner-makes-afr-rich-list-3.html#post10604891 Reference to an article in The Australian (paywall) https://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/626527-flying-school-owner-makes-afr-rich-list-3.html#post10608141 A lot of this is being covered by Robyn Ironside in The Australian. I can't comment how good an idea it is to post the text of complete articles from behind a paywall but somebody is. This time I am grateful. Another thing to note, ex-students of SOAR Aviation appear to be feeding information to Ms Ironside. She seems to know which questions to ask and where to get verified information. Some reviews: https://www.yelp.com.au/biz/soar-aviation-moorabbin-airport https://www.glassdoor.com.au/Reviews/Soar-Aviation-Reviews-E2602783.htm Its been suggested on PPRunNe that the instructors employed by SOAR had fun pumping the Google and GlassDoor reviews with positive comments when the weather wasn't flyable This story doesn't appear to be over by a very long stretch. Caveat: I do not personally know anyone who has had anything to do with SOAR Aviation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toppee Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I'm one of the students "left in the lurch". I had no issues with Soar or the processes they were following. Soar were a whole lot safer than the school I came from prior who would consistently allow flights to go out over MTOW. However I do take exception to their statement saying "they are doing everything possible to assist the students impacted". Neither Box Hill nor Soar have made any formal statement to any student other than what was written in the BHI letter. They both seem to be passing the buck to the other and communication has been non existent. I have an $18K debt now that needs to be refunded given my course was cancelled in the middle of the semester but who knows what will happen with that debt (no one is talking at this stage). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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