onetrack Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Don't worry, I've been caught out with the same stunt and made to look a fool. What's worse, is when you struggle to find a date on the article. Turboplanner got caught out a few weeks ago, seeing an old news item about a Cessna Conquest crash in Renmark, when the crash news he was looking for, was the newer Evektor ultralight crash into the vineyard in Renmark. He was telling us all it was definitely a big twin crash, while we all had info it was an ultralight. 1
turboplanner Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 It appears the wankers who create the news articles added the 'old' news, creating a false belief. Such unprofessional behavior. We need to be able to edit Thread headings to tidy up problems like this, correct incorrect models, correct spelling errors.
boleropilot Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 A real shame, only just heard on the news it was the Dull brothers - I knew Owen quite well, lovely guy, very quiet, he told me he soloed on a Drifter in 5 hours... He was a brilliant engineer too, designed and built his own enclosed cockpit gyrocopter - it looked like it had come straight out of a factory in Germany, superb workmanship Blue skies and tailwinds for the brothers from now, deepest condolences to their family members. BP 1
kgwilson Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Very sad news. I saw them at Evans Head on Saturday. The weather was forecast to deteriorate with a strong Southerly coming through on Saturday afternoon. I left & got back to South Grafton by 1:00pm & it was still hot & calm. My wife rang worried as it was howling at home & my last track location was 3 miles before I got back. I'd forgotten to hit the checkin before turning the Spot off. On Sunday one of the guys from here drove to Evans due to the bad weather. He reckoned the wind was strong enough to blow a dog off a chain. Get-home-itis has killed far too many of us. The rotors on the lee side of those steep hills would have been horrendous after an equally frightening kick on the upwind side. 2 2
boleropilot Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 yeah kg, terrible news and I don't know when we are going to all learn The Lesson. What happened to the Stinson in 1937 (in the same area) was one of the first indications of when the power of the mountains + bad weather = not a good outcome. anyone close to the family who has information on the 'goodbyes', please post details here so I can attend to pay my respects. RIP guys. BP 2
Guest Guest Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 A real shame, only just heard on the news it was the Dull brothers - I knew Owen quite well, lovely guy, very quiet, he told me he soloed on a Drifter in 5 hours... He was a brilliant engineer too, designed and built his own enclosed cockpit gyrocopter - it looked like it had come straight out of a factory in Germany, superb workmanship Blue skies and tailwinds for the brothers from now, deepest condolences to their family members. BP I was shocked to here it was Owen tonight was a great man , my deepest condolences to his wife and family will be missed . He was learning to fly his robin power gyro at Teewah the same weekends as we where learning to fly our. Scout mk3 ultralight there .
Aldo Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Aldo, I fail to understand how you can post 6 hrs ago Onetrack I'm happy for you to be right, Rob who's name has now been released has been a board member with me on the DDAC for the past 2 years was one of the nicest people you could meet, the rescue chopper was sent out at 0500 this morning (as I'm told) found the aircraft on it's first search pattern winched in a paramedic who confirmed both were deceased, law requires a doctor to make it real and that is why you may not have known until later. I don't need to be right Aldo
Aldo Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Very sad news KG I agree, I knew Rob (owner) quite well, my question is why do we fly around below lowest safe in shit conditions thinking we will get through it makes no sense, someone once told me most accident searches and investigations the next day are conducted in perfect conditions. Stay on the ground and wait it won't be that long. 1
KRviator Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 KG I agree, I knew Rob (owner) quite well, my question is why do we fly around below lowest safe in shit conditions thinking we will get through it makes no sense, someone once told me most accident searches and investigations the next day are conducted in perfect conditions. Stay on the ground and wait it won't be that long. My personal opinion is it all starts with a single trigger and builds from there. Consider this: You're flying from A-B and the weather's a bit iffy, you might be scud-running or not quite have the 3 miles. But you make it to B ok. That event sows the seed, not necessarily for outright rule-breaking, but the "she'll be right" mentality for the next time, where you might need to pop through a thin payer of stratus or be ducking and weaving through some low cumulus, "I did it last time, and it worked out OK". And the more times you do it - and survive, subconsciously you're building a "I know what I'm doing" culture where a junior you years ago, would take one look at it and say "Yeah, Nah, I'll wait it out". Sometimes, sadly, this is the final outcome. He made the right choice to turn back in the first instance and was only 15 minutes out from Casino when he hit the terrain in a high-speed, high rate descent. Turning back a 2nd time for a 30 minute delay won't kill you, but not doing so might. Let's try to remember this lesson. 1 4
kgwilson Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 I got in the rotor flying my Hang Glider back in 1976 & crash landed behind the hill. I wasn't hurt but the glider was. It was very scary as I had absolutely no control. I have a healthy respect for mountain ranges when there is a lot of wind now especially when it is straight in & up to 45 degrees off. If the range is 3000 feet high I want to go over at a minimum of 5000, preferably 6000. If there"s cloud any lower than that it is a no go. 1 1
Downunder Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 My personal opinion is it all starts with a single trigger and builds from there. Consider this: You're flying from A-B and the weather's a bit iffy, you might be scud-running or not quite have the 3 miles. But you make it to B ok. That event sows the seed, not necessarily for outright rule-breaking, but the "she'll be right" mentality for the next time, where you might need to pop through a thin payer of stratus or be ducking and weaving through some low cumulus, "I did it last time, and it worked out OK". And the more times you do it - and survive, subconsciously you're building a "I know what I'm doing" culture where a junior you years ago, would take one look at it and say "Yeah, Nah, I'll wait it out". Sometimes, sadly, this is the final outcome. He made the right choice to turn back in the first instance and was only 15 minutes out from Casino when he hit the terrain in a high-speed, high rate descent. Turning back a 2nd time for a 30 minute delay won't kill you, but not doing so might. Let's try to remember this lesson. It's called "normalisation of deviance". Social normalization of deviance means that people within the organization become so much accustomed to a deviant behavior that they don't consider it as deviant, despite the fact that they far exceed their own rules for the elementary safety". People grow more accustomed to the deviant behavior the more it occurs . 1 1
Old Koreelah Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 I got in the rotor flying my Hang Glider back in 1976 & crash landed behind the hill. I wasn't hurt but the glider was. It was very scary as I had absolutely no control. I have a healthy respect for mountain ranges when there is a lot of wind now especially when it is straight in & up to 45 degrees off. If the range is 3000 feet high I want to go over at a minimum of 5000, preferably 6000. If there"s cloud any lower than that it is a no go. Wise words, KG. That Bonalbo-Urbenville-Woodenbong-Koreelah-Boonah country has lots of isolated peaks which, no doubt, create crazy turbulence in strong winds. That's supposition because, although I've climbed some of them, I've never achieved the dream of flying around my home district- I'm too much of a wimp. Back south where I now live, we cross the Liverpool Range frequently. Its a low, continuous barrier and it doesn't take much wind for it to cause problems. We often find strong turbulence miles past the crest, and thousands of feet higher. 1 2
facthunter Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 Normalisation of deviance is a very apt description. You push the boundaries and get away with it. You think those rules are only for other people, because "somehow" you have special skills and have an established record to prove it.. (in your own mind) Be a "chicken" with weather and you will survive to fly another day. The forces of Nature are very large and dwarf even the largest Jumbo jet .Study as much of WEATHER causes and EFFECTS as you can and read the sky. The cloud types often have stories to tell. Mechanical turbulence is not wind "over graders and bulldozers.". IN strong winds, turbulence may be experienced 100's of Kms downwind of a mountain range, or mountains like Canobolus near Orange, an area known for HAIL as are the areas around CASINO and NW SYDNEY. Hail only forms when the vertical currents in a Cumuliform cloud are strong. Severe turbulence makes the structure of your plane susceptible to failure and maintaining control difficult or impossible sometimes. Nev
boleropilot Posted January 13, 2020 Posted January 13, 2020 when I was in Army Aviation at Oakey we had a Cessna 180 call in an emergency, he returned to the base (which was in fine weather) with the 180 almost a write-off not only did it have giant holes in the windscreen from hail, the turbulence nearly ripped the control surfaces off - the pilot and his passenger both thought they were going to die funny thing is they swear they were giving the storm a wide berth but they described it's expansion as "explosive" - they couldn't outrun it..... 1 3
boleropilot Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 anybody know why a Basair Beech Baron B55 VH-BWZ is conducting a search pattern over Tamrookum at 1000 hours this morning ? looks like it's heading back to Archerfield now (1020 hrs)
boleropilot Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 thank the Lord - scared me for a minute...
Old Koreelah Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Spot on, PM. A great exercise to decide where we fit on that graph. 2
Yenn Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 I would like to think that I fit on the right hand side of the graph. I have made the decision not to fly, or to turn back a few times and it seems to get easier every time. I want to be the pilot who nobody notices, Not sure if I am achieving that aim. 1 2 1
facthunter Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Regarding hail in clear air, the overhang from the top of a large Cb can contain hail and it can fall more than 20 NM downwind of the main cloud., It can smash windscreens radomes and leading edges of large aircraft. and write off smaller ones easily. Imagine having a fabric covered aircraft in those circumstances. Be a live coward not a dead hero. I've always given storms a wide berth. You and your passengers are better off well away from them. One day I was well away from a B747 that was near a very large CU and going in and out of the big grey cauliflower. It looked miniscule and vulnerable compared with the dimensions of the swirling masses of cloud it was getting involved with. Nev 1
dsam Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 I well remember the toughest time I said “no”. Family and friends gathered for a series of (much anticipated) local joy flights that were planned some days in advance. A strong, gusty crosswind steadily got worse shortly after I arrived. I disappointed adults and kids alike when I made the call to tie-down for the day. I kept telling myself of my greater responsibility to my passengers - injuring somebody I loved felt unimaginable, and that strengthened my resolve to stay tied-down. I’m certain I made the right choice saying no, that afternoon. 4 1 1
Methusala Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 See my post #9 in this thread Flight (and additional training) plans for 2020. For exciting (unexpected ) encounter with hail. Apologies for the poor format, blame MS Word
Old Koreelah Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Good call, Dsam. I’ve never had my family and friends to watch me take to the air; too much distraction and pressure to over-rule patient preparations. 1 1
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