'Flight shaming' and the ethics of recreational flying?

[Old Koreelah]

It usually does, and improves service as long as it isn't a monopoly. Governments are rubbish at efficiency and service.

Yep, but big business can be at least as wasteful. Not so long ago career public servants took pride in building and maintaining our communications, power, water and transport infrastructure. Since privatisation, staff have been trimmed to the bone so that one storm event can overwhelm the few people left to run the system.

[Flying Binghi]

 

...Not so long ago career public servants took pride in building and maintaining our communications, power, water and transport infrastructure...

 

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Even with a huge union burden Australia used to have the cheapest reliable electricity on the planet. Now we have near the the most expensive unreliable power on the planet.....

 

 

 

 

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[Marty_d]

It usually does, and improves service as long as it isn't a monopoly. Governments are rubbish at efficiency and service.

Actually, they're not. Think of how many things get privatized then go downhill in terms of service.

 

It's a bit of a no-brainer. If it's privatized, the company has to do the same thing but also turn a profit for their shareholders. Therefore they end up not doing the service properly in order to maintain the profit.

 

(And, in most cases, their main customer is still the government, whose teat they latch on to and suck as hard as they can. How much did the asylum seekers end up costing, because the government used private security companies? How much did Halliburton make from the Gulf wars?)

[Jerry_Atrick]

The mob that Ross Perot owned (COmputer somethingorother) managed to take arojnd £5bn form the NHS (public health) and produced absolutely nothing...

 

This sums up government using private enterprise: Government wastes £31bn on 'rip off' contracts. Its behind a paywall, but you can guess what has happened..

 

Yhe thing to remember is that these companies are often foreign owned, so the unretauined profits are exported to the parent and that country reaps the rewards... I wold rather the government stuff it up and at least the employees and money stays in Australia (or the UK from my perspective).

 

HMRC (equivalent of the ATO + Customes/Excise) has engaged one of the big computer software consultancies to develop making tax digital.. simply put, the ability to submit 10 fields that comprise the VAT (GST) return throughb software rather than online over the web. Hm.. as an ex developer, I think it should be able to be done in, say six months as the software is already doing it over the web (convert to an API call, add credentials, tokens and approprriate authorisations/tax payer management and one is done).. They completely stuffed it up.. Took something like 2 years - built a whole new system and they are hiring a bunch of monkeys to hand key everything...

 

As I understand, HMRC are paying much more for it than originally tendered.

 

Of course, some will be the HMRC itself not being able to make up its mind about what it wants... but surely, it is a quiestion of replicate what is there and then build on it...

[Bernie]

Every time I use a tap in our place it uses power we are on tank water . 20,000 gallons plus a bore .

It doesn't matter what power I use through the day , it's still cheaper than a packet of smokes , and it runs a complete household aircon and all .

I don't smoke .

Bernie .

[M61A1]

Actually, they're not. Think of how many things get privatized then go downhill in terms of service.

 

It's a bit of a no-brainer. If it's privatized, the company has to do the same thing but also turn a profit for their shareholders. Therefore they end up not doing the service properly in order to maintain the profit.

 

(And, in most cases, their main customer is still the government, whose teat they latch on to and suck as hard as they can. How much did the asylum seekers end up costing, because the government used private security companies? How much did Halliburton make from the Gulf wars?)

While I. Agree that often the private contractors may cost a lot more than they should, the scary but is that they are still cheaper and still usually deliver better service.

[Student Pilot]

While I. Agree that often the private contractors may cost a lot more than they should, the scary but is that they are still cheaper and still usually deliver better service.

Telecommunications? Electricity? Water? Better service compared to what, post war Europe?

[M61A1]

Telecommunications? Electricity? Water? Better service compared to what, post war Europe?

Compared to how well the govt does it...If you've lived here for more than a couple of years, you will know that those things were very expensive and no more reliable when they were government run....Especially telecommunications.

Phone service is better and cheaper than ever, the govt run the NBN and look what we have.

[Old Koreelah]

While I. Agree that often the private contractors may cost a lot more than they should, the scary but is that they are still cheaper and still usually deliver better service.

Maybe for some; not for us.

In the steam train days my home town got mail from Sydney inside three days; now it takes over a week.

We get more and longer blackouts today than when our local electricity County Council ran the show.

When I buy things online they insist on sending via courier; but can never tell me which local agent will receive it, so I have to phone around to find my parcel. In thirty-odd years only one has ever been delivered to my address (5 km from PO). My $12,500 aero engine sat in an unlocked, half-open garage for days before I tracked it down. I retreived it from among the undelivered parcels and the agent still has no idea who collected it.

[Kctoothman]

Hi folks!

 

A tough one here.

 

Recent events have placed climate change concerns front and centre of the political agenda. As somebody who lives on the land, my observation of recent weather and climatic conditions in the far north has been cause for concern...

 

Im no greenie, but I recognize the need to be more environmentally aware in our lives, if not for our sakes, then for future generations. And my wife and I have tried hard to translate intent into action. Im not going to list the things we do to try and reduce our environmental impacts, as am sure that most responsibly minded people do likewise...

 

I guess the most gratuitous emissions we produce are from aviation. This is an unresolved question in our minds. Ive got no idea how emissions from a light aero engine compare with other emissions sources (can somebody here tell me?), but I suspect that as time passes private flying is not only going to be perceived as an expensive luxury but also an environmentally selfish one. For now the focus of Flygskam angst is commercial jet travel which obviously account for the bulk of aviation emissions. But sooner or later somebody is going to pick up on all the little Cessna's, Pipers and Jabirus buzzing around, and the dirty two-strokes screaming behind ultralights. How does flying in a light aircraft compare with emissions per capita/mile in a commercial aircraft? Im assuming even higher.

 

Personally I'd love to have an electric aircraft. Since all my power is solar, it would be good and cheap to run although Im not sure how useful current models would be for bush flying... The range is a big concern.

 

But other than putting the plane on bricks, growing a beard, wearing sandals and eating mung beans, is there anything we can actually do to make our passion more environmentally responsible? Gliding?

 

Has anybody yet given this much thought? I guess its a personal accommodation we each need to make....

 

Alan

My 0360 burns.... let’s say 40 Litres an hour.

I have 9 grandchildren and I don’t feel that I’m destroying their future with the residues of that burnt fuel.

I do feel that if they choose, they may one day be able to enjoy and maybe understand why their grandfather chose to FLY!

[Student Pilot]

...Especially telecommunications.

Phone service is better and cheaper than ever, govt run the NBN and look what we have.

Surely you jest. A mean spirited government changing the definition of NBN to using the 120 year old copper network so they can do it cheap, then getting contractors/con-men/shysters to do everything from selling to installing. It might be a semi government body but they are renting out all services to private enterprise. Consequently worse services and coverage.

Doesn't help selling access to publicly paid for infrastructure to private companies to try and get competition. Private enterprise doesn't mean cheaper, it means they charge what they want because they can. Look at power, it's a long way dearer now than 20 years ago and there has been nothing spent on hardware/infrastructure. In fact power companies are talking of government upgrading major supply lines so they can sell more power.

It might have been less efficient but when power was sold through County Councils it was a lot cheaper, most towns had depots running maybe 30 vehicles, employing 100 people (Local). Now one vehicle services many towns, any work done on lines/poles is just minimum.

[onetrack]

The worst thing that ever happened with the NBN was paying Telstra $11B to buy a 120 yr old copper network that was on its last legs - and which the NBN promptly ripped out. $1B would have been too much.

[spacesailor]

NBN !

What a load of horse poo.

Wales UK .

Can get 1000mbs internet on optical cable, what does Australia get. horse poo !.

The only country in the world that has compusary NBN.

 

spacesailor

[Flying Binghi]

 

...Look at power, it's a long way dearer now than 20 years ago and there has been nothing spent on hardware/infrastructure. In fact power companies are talking of government upgrading major supply lines so they can sell more power.

It might have been less efficient but when power was sold through County Councils it was a lot cheaper..

 

 

Nice reliable coal power don’t need them ‘gold plated’ power lines that are needed for the power ‘surges’ of wind and solar...?

 

 

 

 

 

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[Student Pilot]

Indonesia has better internet in the middle of Kalimantan ( Borneo to us old farts) and for about the equivalent of $20 Oz a month. Why do Australian providers charge so much? Because they can.

[Student Pilot]

Nice reliable coal power don’t need them ‘gold plated’ power lines that are needed for the power ‘surges’ of wind and solar...

Minor problem most of Australia's power stations are at the end of the life or some cases past it, none of the power companies want to build new coal fired power stations, bad investment.

When the major feed went down to SA wind and solar were the main power feed to SA for 3 weeks to a month. That was also powering the aluminium smelter in Portland Vic. They said because of the better quality feed incorporating the batteries they had less trouble with power fluctuations. That was just on wind/solar and the new battery pack with some assistance from a couple of gas fired power stations.

By "gold plated" do you mean something that was built after 1962?

[Old Koreelah]

My 0360 burns.... let’s say 40 Litres an hour.

I have 9 grandchildren and I don’t feel that I’m destroying their future with the residues of that burnt fuel.

I do feel that if they choose, they may one day be able to enjoy and maybe understand why their grandfather chose to FLY!

 

It's all relative, Kc. 40 litres per hour is thirsty compared to my baby's dozen or so, but perhaps what we should be looking at is the total amount consumed. How often do you fly?

I fill my 205 litre drum once a year and buy maybe another 100 litres p.a. from bowsers. My car only does about 10,000 km per year, averaging 9 litres per 100, so that's about 900 litres of diesel.

So my plane costs the environment about a third as much as my car.

 

Does that make me feel better? I still use mobs more than my share of the planet's resources...

[Flying Binghi]

Minor problem most of Australia's power stations are at the end of the life or some cases past it, none of the power companies want to build new coal fired power stations, bad investment.

Wind and solar when the main power feed was done to SA powered all of SA for 3 weeks to a month. That was just on wind/solar and the new battery pack with some assistance from a couple of gas fired power stations.

By "gold plated" do you mean something that was built after 1962?

 

“..bad investment” ? Why would it be a bad investment to build coal fired power stations ? China has over 600 new coal fired power stations to be built on the order books - China opens a new coal fired power station about every two weeks.

India is currently doing a major overhaul of its rail system to supply a coal power station building spree. There is to be a India wide capacity doubling of all rail lines servicing coal fields, coal ports, and coal power stations. There is to be a doubling of the number of coal wagons. Also a major push in manufacturing the worlds most powerful locomotives to pull the bigger coal trains.

 

“...main power feed” YEP!, and yer can make an Outhouse fly if you spend enuf money. Perhaps you should tell the Indian and Chinese governments they is on the wrong track with their ‘investments’..

 

“...built after 1962”. ???

 

 

 

 

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[Flying Binghi]

 

...I still use mobs more than my share of the planet's resources...

 

 

What do you mean by that ?

 

 

 

 

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[Student Pilot]

Binghi, you can rail and spew all you like it doesn't change anything. Nobody wants to build a coal fired power station in Australia.

There is pressure from some for the Government to build a couple then hand them over to their mates, that going to happen?

[Flying Binghi]

Binghi, you can rail and spew all you like it doesn't change anything. Nobody wants to build a coal fired power station in Australia.

There is pressure from some for the Government to build a couple then hand them over to their mates, that going to happen?

 

Well, thats a new one - point out world comparisons and it is taken as “rail and spew” ...

 

As to future power ‘station’ building... we in Oz is running out of the easy money to waste on ‘alternative’ power and I’d hazard a guess common sense will return in a few years when the green power disaster really starts to bite...?

 

 

 

 

 

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[Jerry_Atrick]

China's demand for powerand the infrastructure as well as trade wars, etc are causing it to reduce its renewables agenda.. However, one or two countries doing something does not mean it is the right thing to do. Especially China, which manipulates and has an authoritarian system of government.

 

In the UK and Europe, the picture is vastly different... The move to renewables is real and after the investment in infrastructure, the price of generating renewable electricity is reducing. There are RECs (Retail Electricity Companies, I think) that are sprining up that provide renewable energy. Obviously, they can't guarantee every unit of electricity that comes down the wire is generated from renewables. but for every unit we consume, they buy futures from renewable energy is I think how it works. The main producers are coming on stream as well. These are growing rapidly, so the consumer is voting.

 

Yes, renewable energy isn't cheap at the moment.. Economies of scale are a big thing here.. But, using the argument that it aint cheap, then little technolgical progress would be made at all.. We could still get around with a horse and cart... not too many around now. Electric cars are expensive at the minute compared to their ICE counterparts, but I am betting in 20 years or so, ICE based cars will be relics and out great grandkids will be asking why it took so long to make the change on a mass scale.

 

Also, of you are going to claim world comparison - compare the world - not just China and India. Even the US are shying away from coal. China has or is funding the vast majority of new coal power - it is not new power from all sources of which the rest of the world are moving to.

 

Also, the IMF and world bank are forecasting Aussie coal prices to decline or hold steady in to the future.. Coal Prices Forecast: Long Term, 2018 to 2030 | Data and Charts - knoema.com. The underlying price (smoothed for short term volatility) seems to have remained much the same since about 2005.. There has been a drop recenlty, but this is attributeed to COVIT-19. The point is, like oil, there will always be a need, but people are moving away from it for better alternatives.

[Old Koreelah]

What do you mean by that ?

Simple maths: there are over seven billion of us in this lifeboat.

I am using much more of its food, water, energy, etc. than the poorest people.

We are using up its resources faster than they can be produced; plundering our oceans, forests, aquifers and farmland at an unsustainable rate to meet current demand, as billions more aspire to our standard of living...

[Old Koreelah]

...Oz is running out of the easy money to waste on ‘alternative’ power and I’d hazard a guess common sense will return in a few years when the green power disaster really starts to bite...?

Please make contact with reality.

 

A couple of centuries of burning fossil fuels has given us rapid development, but has also done much damage to the only planet we have. Why would you oppose moving back to more sustainable energy sources?

Commercial interests are voting for those green solutions.

[pmccarthy]

It will take 10 to 20 years to dig our economies out of the Coronavirus hole. We will quickly find out the most efficient power sources as we move away from 'first world' problems of environmental one-upmanship.