studying aviation - associate dagree/bachelor of applied science

[spenaroo]

anyone have experience or knows of the systems with studying through a university,

recently been thinking of changing carreer paths (28yrs old). and looking at the possibility of studying to be a commercial pilot.

 

While so far ive been self funding my RPC, I wouldnt be ablt to afford a PPL let alone a CPL that way.

so thinking that a degree through a reputable uni may be the best way - and load up on a HECS/VET debt.

 

very wary of the whole soar fiasco, and seen enough friends with useless degree's that dont qualify them fo anything so want toknow ill exit with a job prospect

 

RMIT seemed to me to be the safest bet., as they have a QANTAS partnership

But so little that I can actually find from a web page.

 

For example the difference between an associate degree in aviation, and an degree of applied science in aviation.

They offer both with the same outcomes listed

 

 

[rgmwa]

Maybe see if ADFA can offer a way forward?   https://www.defencejobs.gov.au/students-and-education/australian-defence-force-academy/what-is-adfa?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8qXLxuCj5wIVjiQrCh0GCA5xEAAYASAAEgL8sPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

What's your background - seems English is not your first language...

 

 

[facthunter]

"associates" used to be Diploma's  like ASTC, and were considered good in the practical sense. Often done through technical colleges. There was a path to a full degree from them but not really needed in a of of cases as the course is complete in it's own right. RMIT should be fine (in my view).  Get going . Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Some of the airlines are offering training to approved candidates. My opinion of university training nowadays is that it is all geared to the university making lots of money. I have no experience with uni. graduates in aviation, but I have seen a lot of useless graduates in other fields.

 

 

[spenaroo]

What's your background - seems English is not your first language...

 

Just very lazy, the curse of my generation.

tend to lose the proper grammar and ignore spelling when it comes to the internet.

 

 

[Jabiru7252]

Just very lazy, the curse of my generation.

tend to lose the proper grammar and ignore spelling when it comes to the internet.

 

The question about background and English was all that showed up in my previous post, there was more but it just disappeared.

 

 

[old man emu]

The Australian Skills Quality Authority approved training package for a Commercial pilot's licence is here: https://training.gov.au/Training/Details/AVI50219 It has a link to RTO's who can deliver this course. If you do the course through an RTO, you can get VET fee assistance, provided you meet the criteria. 

 

The ASQA package is only part of the training to obtain a CASA licence. There is also the practical side of things. You would also have to find a training organisation that is approved to participate in the ASQA training package. 

 

Commercial pilot licence (CPL)

 

To obtain a commercial pilot licence (CPL) you must be at least 18 years old and successfully complete an integrated or non-integrated course of training. Integrated courses require (amongst other things) 150 hours of flight time for the aeroplane category rating and Non-integrated courses require 200 hours for the aeroplane category rating. The theory exams must be completed within a two-year period to remain valid.

 

Before you enroll in the ASQA training, make sure that you have obtained your Class 1 medical clearance. No good starting off if you are going to get knocked back on a medical issue.

 

You are wise to be wary of the Flash Jacks who are new to aviation and whose eyes are fixed on their Bottom Line.

 

 

[spenaroo]

Yeah, I think I'm going to take my time and try to find what fits best.

Been thinking of leaving the motorcycle trade for a while. But don't want to make the same mistake of losing a joy because its now associated with stress.

 

I Don't think I'll apply till semester 2, which is in July. Examine all the options first instead of rushing in to things.

I also want to complete my RPC first, to confirm I am able to stick with it and capable of passing the basics. I know its a drop in the ocean of knowledge required, but its a start

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Doing your research is a sure fire way to mitigate the risks/pitfalls a lot of people make. I am not sure about Qantas or other airliyou to have ne sponsorship program in Aus; but over here they don't accept applicants with anything more than a couple of hours in their logbook - guess they want to embedd SOPs from day one or something.

 

Now, if you're like me that had eyes at the time that technically required minor corrective lenses, my understanding is that military aviation as a pilot anyway is off limits in Aus (it was when I went to join the RAAF and becoming what is probably now a defunct role, a weapons officer, was not my idea of fun). At around the time I was thirty, I was in the UK and working on a defence project. I had to get to a meeting PDQ so hired a Warrior from the flight school literally down the road to my office and flew the RAF base the proejct was based at - ahh the good ol; days when yuo could expense almost everything.. Anyway, one of the flight officers walked up to me and asked about my flying credentials.. and then suggested that I may want to join the RAF and although too old for fast jets - could fly Nimrods or such.. When I explained I wore specs (part time, then - mainly for night driving and lectures - where I always sat at the back), he said they got rid of that rule years ago - they wanted to spread their net as wide as possible to get good pilots (not asserting he necessarily thought I was a good pilot).

 

So, come over 'ere and apply to jointhe RAF or Fleet air arm... Now that we have got Brexit upon us and the likelihood is any trade deal with Aus will include movement of people, it is good fun (and the Red Arrows - Roulettes equivalent - still use jets, to boot)

 

 

[poteroo]

Yeah, I think I'm going to take my time and try to find what fits best.

 

Good plan.   As stated by O.M.E. previously - you must do your Class 1 Aviation Medical before you think further about commercial flying. Be brave with this, because if there is even the smallest doubt/query/unknown showing in your medical at age 28 - it might just be an indicator of things to come when your are 48, and just beginning to get somewhere in your flying career.  Incurring a huge debt at age 28 might not be the best move either - it may restrict your credit rating and have other unforeseen effects.

 

good luck with it though,

 

 

[APenNameAndThatA]

Just very lazy, the curse of my generation.

tend to lose the proper grammar and ignore spelling when it comes to the internet.

English obviously first language.

[Jerry_Atrick]

English obviously first language.

 

Hmmm.. When I re-read what I had written:

Doing your research is a sure fire way to mitigate the risks/pitfalls a lot of people make. I am not sure about Qantas or other airliyou to have ne sponsorship program in Aus; but over here they don't accept applicants with anything more than a couple of hours in their logbook - guess they want to embedd SOPs from day one or something.

 

<snip>

I tend to agree. Must have had my mate, Wolfie Blass over that eve... Or was it James Hardy?

[Bruce Tuncks]

Its quite possible that there will be no airline jobs anyway. The airlines grew big because workers were able to afford a ticket, and this situation might never return.

Then , as has been suggested, there is the possibility that they will only recruit beginners, so that they can be indoctrinated into the company procedures better. This is not as silly as it sounds. In my day, you got your commercial license, then went to New Guinea and came back experienced and with ideas of your own and you were hard to manage.

Here's another possibility... charter pilots might be in demand as rich people hire smaller aircraft to go where the airlines don't go anymore.

But looking at the degree business, there are jobs like with CASA or the police, where you need a degree to apply and an aviation degree would be fine. A degree can be a meal-ticket without doing just what you were trained in.

[Jerry_Atrick]

It has been reported that BA are preparing to lay off 12,000 people and they are also saying they are unlikely to recommence operations at Gatwick, London's second biggest airport, after the lockdown is over. I can't remember which European airline it was, maybe Lufthansa said they were not expecting pre-COVID levels of flying to return until late 2023. I work next door to a global product manager for a large chemicals company; He used to travel extensively throughout the world; We were chatting yesterday and he was saying his company, which is about to do some trials in Aus, have adapted well to viceo conferencing and are unlikely to return to air travel in anywhere near the volume they used to. If other businesses are following suit, and considering the economic model here is that business and first virtually subsidise economy, there will be a lot of carriers struggling; they will have to put up the fares for economy, which will result in an even further delay in a rebound of demand..

[facthunter]

The increase in freight costs is not gouging. Most freight was carried in Big Passenger jet lockers MTOW limited, Now it will be a lot by dedicated freight ops where you could be looking at near empty one way situations. I wouldn't be surprised at 7x the previous costs. That will KILL some exports. Perhaps WE get to keep some lobster tails for ourselves ? Nev

[spenaroo]

Yeah, at the moment I am glad I didn't rush in and waited.

I think that it will take a little while to settle down, and there will be limited new investments. with the staff levels held down to suit.

Think I read somewhere that the acceptance age for pilot training in the RAAF is 45, so I may look in that direction. Flying or even a load-master on a Herc has an appeal. Be interesting to see what happens to the international students after all this is over.

[onetrack]

There will be a lot of cheap aircraft when the dust settles, and this will mean a boom in air freight, and more freighter conversions.

There will certainly be a period of probably at least 3 years ahead, when there will be a pilot surplus, and pilot training will be a very subdued business.

[ao767brad]

Spenaroo, there is always going to be a reason “why not“, the industry is cyclical and has in my 32 years always turned around. Whether it’s the pilots dispute, SARS, GFC, bird flu, there is always the naysayers, but training to go all the way through to an airline job is about patience and persistence, not waking up one day and saying that’s what I’m going to do. I’ve mentored a few people in your shoes over the last decade and all of them have found a way to complete their commercial and those qualified have found work. You might wait a while if you want airlines but I can attest that there are a number of flying jobs that are just, if not more rewarding from a personal satisfaction perspective than pure airline jobs.

I’m available to chat if you want specifics as I know 2 mid 20 year olds completing commercial courses this month both having changed career at about 25, as you say bad timing, but it’s a long term plan for both of them.

[facthunter]

It has always been a fair risk getting in. They won't take you generally over 30. I believe airfares are too cheap and they won't get there again even though our Irish chief of Quaintass tinks they will be cheaper. "Please explain"?? Anyhow I think there will be less flying in the future. People won't rush to invest in flying where carbon fuel is a big factor. Shares need to make a return,So.

It's NOT the best job in the world either. Longer legs are the order of the day. The management hate your guts for not Paying them for the seat you occupy .Pilot's(the ONLY people who understand what's involved in flying a plane on schedule in all weather takes) don't manage airlines anymore. Accountants do. You don't get "mad about flying" kids coming up into the cockpit any more. or a nervous attendant for a secret Fag..You're locked up there like a dog in a box. You only get one life. If it's not you up the front, but someone else no one will be any the wiser or care..You are just a number. Even your Mums friends will think you only press buttons.. Nev

[jackc]

It has been reported that BA are preparing to lay off 12,000 people and they are also saying they are unlikely to recommence operations at Gatwick, London's second biggest airport, after the lockdown is over. I can't remember which European airline it was, maybe Lufthansa said they were not expecting pre-COVID levels of flying to return until late 2023. I work next door to a global product manager for a large chemicals company; He used to travel extensively throughout the world; We were chatting yesterday and he was saying his company, which is about to do some trials in Aus, have adapted well to viceo conferencing and are unlikely to return to air travel in anywhere near the volume they used to. If other businesses are following suit, and considering the economic model here is that business and first virtually subsidise economy, there will be a lot of carriers struggling; they will have to put up the fares for economy, which will result in an even further delay in a rebound of demand..

Could see a good rise in biz jet sales to large companies?

[jackc]

Even your Mums friends will think you only press buttons.. Nev

Or......

[Student Pilot]

If that's the class of people in first class (wide seat spacing) the mob in cattle class must be rough ?

[onetrack]

Actually, money doesn't make for a better class of pax. I've seen some deadbeats in business class and first class. Rock stars come to mind.

[Jase T]

My eldest daughter did a BAvn through a rather reputable university.... It has not helped her one bit! Other than being able to put flying onto a HELP debt and pay it off there was no actual benefit, she would (in my opinion) have been better off doing Aero Eng.... FWIW I also have a BAvn (thanks ADF) as well as a BAppSc in parks and wildlife management, (even less useful if you want a job that pays more than $55K).... My Grad Dip in Project management has found me far far more work!