Whats wrong with Boeing?! (New Mentour Pilot video)

[Garfly]

I'm reliably informed it was this one:

 

[Methusala]

I really do wonder if Dennis Muilenberg ever had any real appreciation of the problems associated with the MCAS system?

None of the following absolves him from criminal responsibility for the death of nearly 400 people or the enormous cost to the company of this disaster. The chief executive does not take this job in ignorance or accept the enormous financial rewards without knowing the responsibilities involved. He should be tried for willful murder.Fullstop.

[skippydiesel]

None of the following absolves him from criminal responsibility for the death of nearly 400 people or the enormous cost to the company of this disaster. The chief executive does not take this job in ignorance or accept the enormous financial rewards without knowing the responsibilities involved. He should be tried for willful murder.Fullstop.

 

Me thinks those who apply (I tried once ha ha) know full well that they are above the law, if not in the letter, certainly in fact.

[facthunter]

People can be indemnified as part of their work contract but in a case of it becoming a criminal matter who knows? Intention etc come into that or a criminal NEGLECT issue might be raised. Civil action for compensation happens but it might be indemnified also. People in HIGH RISK activities Like RED ADAIR used to do would have a good justification for seeking indemnity but I can't see manufacturing Transport Aircraft being such a scene as to be able to completely avoid scrutiny of clearly questionable practices and neglect.. Nev

[onetrack]

Muilenberg would never be found guilty in any American court, because the amount of money you can throw at your defence, wins cases in America. Trying to prove intent, or criminal negligence, is where a case against Muilenberg would fail.

But if Muilenberg was a European, and worked for Airbus, and an Airbus crashed due to a similar design fault - killing American pax - I'll wager the Americans would have him charged, and extradite him to face court in the U.S.

 

Even now, French prosecutors are recommending that Air France executives be charged over the AF447 crash, due to their tardiness in attending to the Airbus pitot tube problem, which they claim AF execs knew about.

There was talk of charging Airbus executives for what I presume, was design failures in the A330 - but the recommendation was later dropped, because it appears the case against Airbus execs was shaky.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/17/air-france-could-face-trial-over-2009-crash-of-rio-paris-flight

[kgwilson]

An 11 year old Boeing 737 NG has skidded off the runway in Istanbul today and broken into 3 pieces killing one person & injuring 157. The SBS documentary of 2011 highlighted the poor quality of the fuselage ribs made by a 3rd party supplier after Boeing employees who had been ignored by management became whistle blowers. They were sacked of course. The doco noted that 3 737NGs had broken up after hard landings and although there were no injuries, highlighted the fact that this had not happened in previous 737s or indeed other models. There will be a lot more scrutiny over this now due to the current state of affairs at Boeing.

 

One dead after plane skids off runway in Istanbul, breaking into three pieces

[onetrack]

KGW - I hear what you're saying - but to be fair, this Pegasus Boeing 737 NG went over a huge bank at the end of the runway, and then crashed downwards, over what appears to be at least a 20 to 25M drop, into some pretty rugged terrain.

I think, in the circumstances, this aircraft survived as well as could be expected, given the forces involved. You can see the terrain at each end of Sabiha Gokcen, from Google Street View.

I've been there, and noted there was a major drop each end of the runway. Not the best terrain position for an airport that I've ever seen.

If the aircraft had broken up to this extent on fairly level terrain, after an overrun, I could understand your concern - but the terrain involved would do serious damage to any aircraft travelling through it, in a similar speed and manner.

 

(airport perimeter fence, and end of the runway, on the distant skyline)

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by onetrack

[onetrack]

I ran out of editing time - but the final resting position of the Pegasus 737 NG appears to be pretty much dead centre of the photo, about in line with the most distant large pylon, and on the far side of the perimeter road.

[johnm]

Trying to prove intent, or criminal negligence, is where a case against Muilenberg would fail.

But if Muilenberg was a European, and worked for Airbus, and an Airbus crashed due to a similar design fault - killing American pax - I'll wager the Americans would have him charged, and extradite him to face court in the U.S.

 

 

ooohhhhhhhhhhh the irony !

[kgwilson]

OT yes it did go down the embankment but it broke in 3 pieces exactly like the other 3 did. These broke exactly where the poorly made Fairstraps are designed to strengthen these areas (doors and cargo access ways) to prevent this. See the Wing and a Prayer doco from 26 minutes to 32 minutes. An old 707 was deliberately crashed by FAA to test the fuselage strength at much higher speed than a normal landing & it burst into flames the wings separated but the fuselage survived intact as it should as it had a quality fuselage frame.

[M61A1]

KGW - I hear what you're saying - but to be fair, this Pegasus Boeing 737 NG went over a huge bank at the end of the runway, and then crashed downwards, over what appears to be at least a 20 to 25M drop, into some pretty rugged terrain.

I think, in the circumstances, this aircraft survived as well as could be expected, given the forces involved. You can see the terrain at each end of Sabiha Gokcen, from Google Street View.

I've been there, and noted there was a major drop each end of the runway. Not the best terrain position for an airport that I've ever seen.

If the aircraft had broken up to this extent on fairly level terrain, after an overrun, I could understand your concern - but the terrain involved would do serious damage to any aircraft travelling through it, in a similar speed and manner.

 

(airport perimeter fence, and end of the runway, on the distant skyline)

 

[ATTACH alt=Sabiha-Gokhen.jpg]47225[/ATTACH]

I would have been more surprised if it didn't break up.

The video has a lot of data. Note also the comments about the non-western airlines later on.

No doubt the tin-foil hat brigade will still be looking for a conspiracy.

[onetrack]

9843 feet of runway at Sabiha Gokcen, and they land 2/3rds of the way along it - with a 14kt tailwind - and it's a wet runway as well!? This crew must have bought their licences in the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul. Absolutely unbelievable.

They went through the runway perimeter fence still doing 63kts, tearing an engine off whilst travelling another 550 feet (168 metres), whilst falling about 25 metres, and end up smashing through a concrete perimeter wall.

 

I don't reckon anyone could have thought up a destruction test scenario, that severe. It's a credit to the 737 that only broke up into 3 sections, and that only 3 people died.

Get a look at the solid concrete wall they would've hit, if they been going a little faster, and travelled another 20-25 metres. The 737 would have been concertinaed into half its length, and the death toll would have huge.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by onetrack