Mangalore incident today (19/2/2020)

[kgwilson]

That came down really fast. The chute did not appear fully open indicating a very low/late deployment.

[RossK]

Quick googling shows it's come down 4km in a direct line from the threshold of runway 30 at Santa Maria airport.

Odds on a Base to Final stall, not enough time to deploy chute by the time you realise you need it.

[MattP]

Can't see how a wind reduces the ROD otherwise OK He's good at explaining most things.

Plane with chute descends at 19 mph wind at 19 gives a vector of 1.4 x 19 equals around 28 . More wind even more velocity. On uneven ground that's getting to where you are knocked around. In water you can get tangled in the shrouds if the chute acts as a sail. I'm not against having one. it's just not a complete answer. IF you are on fire getting on the ground quicker is the priority..and IF you are still flying it you have some control over how and where it hits the deck. Nev

 

Agree 100% to not being a complete answer, and the book doesn’t always say pull caps.

 

Smoke and Fire Cabin Fire In Flight

1. Bat-Alt Master Switches ........................................ OFF, AS REQ’D

2. Fire Extinguisher............................................................ACTIVATE

If airflow is not sufficient to clear smoke or fumes from cabin:

3. Cabin Doors ...................................................... PARTIALLY OPEN Airspeed may need to be reduced to partially open door in flight.

4. Avionics Power Switch .............................................................OFF

5. All other switches .....................................................................OFF

6. Land as soon as possible.

If setting master switches off eliminated source of fire or fumes and airplane is in night, weather, or IFR conditions:

7. Airflow Selector ........................................................................OFF

8. Bat-Alt Master Switches ............................................................ ON

9. Avionics Power Switch .............................................................. ON

10. Required Systems.................................... ACTIVATE one at a time

11. Temperature Selector............................................................COLD

12. Vent Selector.........................FEET/PANEL/DEFROST POSITION

13. Airflow Selector .............................. SET AIRFLOW TO MAXIMUM

14. Panel Eyeball Outlets............................................................OPEN

15. Land as soon as possible.

[Student Pilot]

That a Truster emergency checklist?

[planedriver]

16. If slow enough and low enough.................................Jump.

[Student Pilot]

Checklist...........engine running-keep flying..........engine stop-land

[facthunter]

Plane on fire, land quick. Do it well enough or you crash AND burn. Burn is the worst way to go. .Nev

[M61A1]

I was looking at some aircraft specs today and found this on the DA40 specs on WIKI. Thought it may be of interest on the BRS subject.

 

Operational history[edit]

The DA40 has accumulated a very low accident record, particularly with regard to stall and spin accidents. Its overall and fatal accident rates are one-eighth that of the general aviation fleet and include no stall-related accidents. The level of safe operation is attributed to its high aspect ratio wing, low wing loading and benign flight characteristics. The aircraft can be trimmed full nose up, engine set to idle and it will descend at 600–1200 feet per minute at 48 kn (89 km/h) hands-off, a lower rate of descent than the competitor Cirrus SR22 can achieve with its airframe ballistic parachute deployed.[

[onetrack]

For a small composite aircraft that costs N of AU$800,000, I'd expect every aspect of the design to be cutting edge.

[M61A1]

For a small composite aircraft that costs N of AU$800,000, I'd expect every aspect of the design to be cutting edge.

Certainly...I just found it interesting that that the descent rate in a basically stalled condition was lower that a Cirrus with the chute out.

[Flightrite]

Certainly...I just found it interesting that that the descent rate in a basically stalled condition was lower that a Cirrus with the chute out.

 

That's incredible! Might as well dump the chute and crash without it, at least ya won't get tangled up in Pwr lines

M?

[Thruster88]

X

Edited July 26, 2020 by Thruster88

[Thruster88]

I was looking at some aircraft specs today and found this on the DA40 specs on WIKI. Thought it may be of interest on the BRS subject.

 

Operational history[edit]

The DA40 has accumulated a very low accident record, particularly with regard to stall and spin accidents. Its overall and fatal accident rates are one-eighth that of the general aviation fleet and include no stall-related accidents. The level of safe operation is attributed to its high aspect ratio wing, low wing loading and benign flight characteristics. The aircraft can be trimmed full nose up, engine set to idle and it will descend at 600–1200 feet per minute at 48 kn (89 km/h) hands-off, a lower rate of descent than the competitor Cirrus SR22 can achieve with its airframe ballistic parachute deployed.[

The bit in red sounds like typical aircraft sales person BS.

[M61A1]

The bit in red sounds like typical aircraft sales person BS.

I can’t vouch for it personally, but the WIKI page attributes that paragraph to Paul Bertorelli and Avweb.

[Jase T]

Having flown aircraft with the other sort of ballistic emergency system (the one you sit on) I can say the considerations on when and how to safely use and survive one would blow your mind. You can't simply pull a handle. You need to know the system limits, know the max ROD / attitude limits that will allow it to work. And then when the time comes know that you will have the confidence to us3 it and trust it..,,

[Thruster88]

I can’t vouch for it personally, but the WIKI page attributes that paragraph to Paul Bertorelli and Avweb.

Not having a go at you M61A1. The alleged? "parachute mode" of the da40 caused me to do some research. The maneuver is not in the AFM, end of story. Paul Bertorelli may have talked about it but I am sure he would have also mentioned the pitfalls of mushing an aircraft regardless of how benign the stall spin characteristics are. I feel aircraft sales people have a certain responsibility when promoting their product.

[pmccarthy]

What are the pitfalls of mushing an aircraft?

[Thruster88]

What are the pitfalls of mushing an aircraft?

Loss of control and spinning. Death

Edited July 26, 2020 by Thruster88

[kgwilson]

The last one is the most serious of all.

[M61A1]

Loss of control and spinning. Death

But....if your descent rate is slower than a BRS descent, and you have nothing to lose?

The likelihood of carrying out such a manoeuvre is extremely unlikely when you consider that the main reasons you would pull the chute is structural failure or complete loss of control, in which case this won’t help.

[GraemeK]

While the descent rate may be slower than under a BRS, there is still a significant forward velocity and a lot of energy to be dissipated.

[M61A1]

Loss of control and spinning. Death

One might also argue that if you get yourself into a spin while “mushing “ , maybe flying isn’t for you. ( this particular aircraft)

It would also be interesting to find out what the descent rate in a spin is. It may well be survivable.

in any case, I don’t really see the point in using either the BRS or mushing while you still have control, other than a situation where you know your are about to lose control.

[facthunter]

RoD is one thing but your forward speed comes into it as well. At least a spin will be at a certain forward speed and RoD that is predictable and known for a particular type and would be a preferred option to a spiral where the speed could be off the clock.. A near stall, power off glide would be close to the same RoD but probably slightly better and can be into wind. Flying at stall, or slightly below is possible but will be a worse L/D so have a higher sink rate. and risk loss of control.Nev

[Flightrite]

The biggest cause of death in accidents of any transport type is blunt force trauma. That's the force you need to reduce, if you can.

I always find it amusing that A/C manufacturers quote their cabin is like a safety cage, their seats are designed to absorb 20+ G impact forces, great the seat is intake but a 6ft person is now 2 feet shorter!

[facthunter]

Speed change and time over which it applies. . IF you are going fast, you are chutney. Crumple zones etc are ok to about 90 kph. Not very applicable to aerodynamic flight. Nev