Mail or email notification from RAAus?

[Bruce Tuncks]

My wife, who pays the bills around here, was expecting a paper invoice to turn up for my RAAus renewal. She says that they are legally bound to send one if you ask for it.

We are sure that nothing ever arrived by mail, but I did get an email notification that my membership had expired.

Does anybody know who is right here?

[Yenn]

Have a look at their paperwork.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I tried Yenn, and I tried to google up whether it was legal or not to do things only on computer, but I failed.

Some years ago, I found that a phone call to a company could be legally ignored by the recipient as you couldn't prove that it happened. Maybe an email is the same?

[David Isaac]

It will be in the by laws, look them up on line. Membership classes and rules are usually set in the by laws. If it says they can, they can. Quite common today. Bit difficult if you don't have an email ... LOL

[Downunder]

I'm sure if you ask for a paper bill they will send one.

 

I have virtually 100%of my bills now emailed and love it.

I receive the invoice and move it to a dedicated folder. If not paying it immediately I note it in my electronic calendar on the due date.

I get an alert on the day and pay. Emailed receipts then go into the same folder as the invoice.

Soooo.....easy.....

 

On a different note, I was behind a lady in the newsagents and she pulled out a cheque book to pay.

Who says dinosaurs are extinct?......lol

Edited March 1, 2020 by Downunder

[turboplanner]

My wife, who pays the bills around here, was expecting a paper invoice to turn up for my RAAus renewal. She says that they are legally bound to send one if you ask for it.

We are sure that nothing ever arrived by mail, but I did get an email notification that my membership had expired.

Does anybody know who is right here?

I haven't owned a cheque book for about 15 years, so we're talking a transition period of approximately 20 years.

A Facsimile became a legally acceptable document in the 1970s.

I haven't seen any legislation, but if you were looking for it try the legal profession because they seem to be the only group that documents these things; the rest of us seem to just adapt and start using any new system that works well.

I started using emails in business around 1986, and quickly found they were as reliable as a registered letter and you got instant notification of when it was received and when it was opened, which led to a much better way of educating suppliers and confirming that in fact you had responded promptly to customers.

It also led to databasing, where the three nights or so I spent each month photocopying, envelope stuffing, addressing each envelope (or sticking a printed address on, licking the stamps and taking the lot to the post office for three associations, and the extra night I spent on the phone after a meeting with the 1% who said they didn't get the letter and would have voted differently if they'd known etc. was replaced by a single click, and confirmation of who had read the notices before I even started the meetings.

In business it became possible to get a multi million dollar enquiry from a customer at 9:20 am, for a 10:00 am Board Meeting, and confirm he had his copy of the ten page proposal by 9:50 am, and finish up with an order that day.

With those advantages I couldn't see why anyone would be too concerned about spending the time to make email transmissions legal documents, but maybe they were.

 

After having to post a document a few weeks ago, which involved buying an envelope, standing in a queue, finding out what used to be a 10c stamp now cost as much as a latte, and finally breaking free, I can't see the romance of paper business.

[pmccarthy]

I have been involved with a few companies who switched to communicating with shareholders or members by email. There was no legal obligation to do it by mail.

[FlyingVizsla]

Long time since RAA sent me an invoice by snail mail. I get an SMS and email about a month out with invoice, then again closer to the date. I pay on-line through the members' portal and the receipt is emailed. The only time I get snail mail is when they have to post out a card. We have two memberships and three aircraft. Works well.

[kasper]

All members who joined RAAus after incorporation have consented to electronic communication.

 

all members who were members of the incorporated association had a choice at conversion to accept electronic communication or to refuse ... it was one of several very poor drafting areas in the changeover ... there are members who elected not to accept electronic comms.

 

as all the rules and policies only have authority under the constitution for those members nothing the RAAus can do will ever force electronic comms.

This is why there will NEVER be a fully online election process or any other fully electronic constitutional process.

 

due to poor drafting that was not fixed a few years ago there will always be a requirement to have all official notices and processes in written form lodgers by snail mail.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Thanks kasper.

I have a mate who says that internet voting is so good now that we could do away with pollies and vote for everything online.

Wow that would be hard on those who had paid good money to own their pollies huh.

[turboplanner]

Thanks kasper.

I have a mate who says that internet voting is so good now that we could do away with pollies and vote for everything online.

Wow that would be hard on those who had paid good money to own their pollies huh.

Twelve months ago I would have agreed with you, but:

 

1. Having spent a lot of time on camping holidays up and down the Murray and Darling Rivers, I became interested in what seemed some very odd social media about the Murray Darling Basin Authority in the early stages of thye drought so I started doing some research and found the proponents of attacking various governments were lying repeatedly to get the general public, who would have struggled to tell you where the Darling is, to lobby politicians, call for Royal Commissions etc. Quite a few of the people following the posts believed eveything they read. It ended with three State Ministers being so alarmed that they made tactical moves which ultimately will have negative effects on farmers.

 

2. The Social media on the recent bushfires simply ignored previous history and took readers into fairyland. Any vote there would most likely have been the opposite of what the people would have voted for if they had been given the truth.

 

and so on.

 

Technically what your mate says is true. If true facts are presented to you, and you can go away and sit down and think them through, it's a very easy form of voting. However, its the perfect opportunity for someone to lead you up the garden path.

 

There's nothing like someone putting he point, and then being rebutted by his opponent with an audience present to tear down the BS, which is probably why politicians steer away from multi-party meetings.

[Bruce Tuncks]

You have a some good points turbs. I am continually shocked at just how easily my fellow voters are influenced by advertising. At my local council, part of safe labor seat, the fat mayor, who makes no secret of his ambition for a safe Liberal seat, gets re-elected every year by outspending his opponents on advertising.

He is a no-good mayor and the only thing you can say in his favor is that he is honest about his goal.

I wonder what would happen if paid-for advertising was banned. I think it is in China.

[turboplanner]

You have a some good points turbs. I am continually shocked at just how easily my fellow voters are influenced by advertising. At my local council, part of safe labor seat, the fat mayor, who makes no secret of his ambition for a safe Liberal seat, gets re-elected every year by outspending his opponents on advertising.

He is a no-good mayor and the only thing you can say in his favor is that he is honest about his goal.

I wonder what would happen if paid-for advertising was banned. I think it is in China.

As was pointed out to me a Victorian Labor Minister when I commented that early voting and trying to raise 100 staff for handing out on election day was a pain in the ass; "The splinter parties can never raise the people to do it."

 

If you want to see how much money pays in the decision, take a look at Clive Palmer's results, and more recently Bloomberg's $0.9 Billion spend.

If you want to really see what goes on, go on the State and Federal websites and track each Booth result in your electorate for the last three State and Federal elections. People roll in and vote without the slightest understanding of what they are doing. Heaps of own goals.

[billwoodmason]

My wife, who pays the bills around here, was expecting a paper invoice to turn up for my RAAus renewal. She says that they are legally bound to send one if you ask for it.

We are sure that nothing ever arrived by mail, but I did get an email notification that my membership had expired.

Does anybody know who is right here?

I have had a similar thing happen to me today. My 2019 remewal was due 7/8/19 and was paid 9/8/19. Today I received a notice that my 2020 renewal has expired. (9/6/20). By my calculations should not be due for another 2 months. I have not received any prior notice that is pending, just an SMS to say it has expired. I will be calling RAA in the morning to sort it.

[kasper]

If you are set up for raaus online you can see the starts and end date histories.

 

Login

Go to manage my membership

Scroll to member profile

Scroll to membership

 

It will show membership start-end dates and paid dates for at least back to 2008

[kgwilson]

It's pretty hard for those who have been used to getting bills and other things in the mail as the use of electronic documents and communications which has been around for more than 40 years has hit critical mass and has now exploded into our lives.

 

I began in IT in the 1970s retiring as the CIO of a $1/2 billion company in 2005 so it is all second nature to me and I keep up with new technology advances because it interests me.

 

I have friends who struggle with this stuff and even when I try to help them they still struggle. Understanding new concepts that seem quite foreign becomes harder the older you get. I will sometimes sort out issues while they watch on and by the time I've sorted it all out they are still none the wiser. These people are not stupid just different and have skill sets that I don't have.

[kasper]

Hate to say I told you so but this was one of the problems with the conversion to company a few years back. If you didn’t preserve your right to paper on conversion you are stuck with electronic.

 

I am probably the only member who must get all communications in paper because I forced the issue.