Lockhart River Qld. Plane crash. 11th March 2020.

[Butch]

Best you get educated and read the banner....& GENERAL AVIATION! I fly LSA these days but have been there done that! I was wondering when I had to add another to my ignore list! I guess some live in a sheltered angry world!

Do what you like!

It's always the "I know everything and I've done everything" people that f-ck it up for the the rest of us unworthy low hour rec pilots (if we are worthy of being called pilots!)

[Guest Machtuk]

I've never put anyone on an ignore list, myself, as YOU can just choose to ignore anyone as you see fit. . I consider personal insults inappropriate on a site such as this is as it inhibits some people contributing if they might be so affected. Also responding to the attacks makes the scene a put off generally . We don't want to resemble P Prune at it's worst...

IF the issues of flying under pressure was so simple to sort out as has been suggested, it would have been solved long ago. The Authority( CASA) does have power but I've not seen it as effective in this area as it could be. (tackling the big boys). This is not entirely their fault.. If an operator has the ear of an overseas gov't OR connections to our own and it becomes a diplomatic/political issue they can become effectively untouchable. For the individual pilot and small operators the application of the rules (law) within Offence of Strict Liability framework is a patchy and an often Unjust process.

Thruster 88. sorry I don't agree with your comparison. A Private Pilot NEVER has to be subjected to the pressures a pilot in the Industry MAY be placed under. It's a totally different environment and in many aspects there are no direct comparisons with trucking operations in Australia. Nev

Your last two lines says it all facthunter', spot on!?

[Butch]

If that's applicable Butch, the entire thread shouldn't be allowed as it wasn't a recreational aircraft involved.., Some Professionals also fly/own rec aircraft.. I would think having the facts might be a worthy aim wherever they come from. Nev

I agree Nev,

you have a balanced view not like some others!

[facthunter]

We are all aviators after all and all love flying or else we wouldn't spend money time and effort doing it. Everyone gets to know little planes are much harder to fly than big stuff. There's a lot of ex airline folks who won't fly U/L's. When you get one who does He/she must be 1/2 OK? Maybe ??? Nev.

[Guest Machtuk]

We are all aviators after all and all love flying or else we wouldn't spend money time and effort doing it. Everyone gets to know little planes are much harder to fly than big stuff. There's a lot of ex airline folks who won't fly U/L's. When you get one who does He/she must be 1/2 OK? Maybe ??? Nev.

 

I'll take that as a compliment but I expect anger from the ill informed!?

[turboplanner]

On what planet?

I've been back in aviation maintenance for the last 16 years with a few different companies and contracts and every safety document is written by a consultant and usually they have a mining background. While they usually comply with legislation, a lot of their ideas are incompatible with aviation. Working at heights requirements, workstands and walkways are particularly atrocious.

You're pointing to your own problems. If anyone uses a consultant, and doesn't involve their own employees in what it addresses they get what you're describing. There is no point to writing an SMS which is not going to make things safer.

 

I would reverse these statements and say that "some" organisations have have good SMS policy and "most" pay lip service....That goes for the construction industry as well.

That could well be true in your area. It varies from industry to industry.

[Butch]

I'll take that as a compliment?

I don't think it was meant for you

Ohhh sorry …… I'm on your ignore list!

[turboplanner]

M61 you are wasing yr time with turbo, I've put the fool on my ignore list! He just doesn't get it as he has no idea about commercial charter flying, a wannabe pilot!

It doesn't take long for the familar fingerprints of the prune refugee to surface; I already said I'm not involved in Charter Flyaing, I've already said my suggestion related to the transport industry, and I'm not a wannabe anything. Happy to be on your ignore list and waiting for the inevitable temper outbursts and gaffes.

[Butch]

I'll take that as a compliment but I expect anger from the ill informed!?

Nice edit after you get a bit of flac!

Original quote (I'll take that as a compliment )

[turboplanner]

Thruster 88. sorry I don't agree with your comparison. A Private Pilot NEVER has to be subjected to the pressures a pilot in the Industry MAY be placed under. It's a totally different environment and in many aspects there are no direct comparisons with trucking operations in Australia. Nev

In view of a later smart alec comment the discussion, which several people appear unable to comprend, related to the pressure applied to CHARTER Pilots, COMMERCIAL Pilots, not Private Pilots.

 

There's no relationship between Private Pilots and truck drivers and we never said there was.

[alf jessup]

Come on kids play nice. This media fed Corona BS has you all on edge, or is it the mungbeans bulk hoarding that have you all on edge.

[Flying Binghi]

...There's no relationship between Private Pilots and truck drivers and we never said there was.

 

Well, I’m a private pilot and a private truck driver...... actually, ah gots more trucks then aircraft - hope That don’t upset no-one..?

 

 

 

 

 

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[M61A1]

Well, I’m a private pilot and a private truck driver...... actually, ah gots more trucks then aircraft - hope That don’t upset no-one..?

 

 

 

 

 

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I guess it depends which end of the truck driving spectrum you're at......They seem to be a very broad range. I've met some that can't write their own name, and struggle to breath and walk at the same time, while at the other end, I know draughtsmen, engineers and accountants that gave it up to drive trucks.

If you had one truck and no aircraft, you'd still have more trucks than aircraft.

[M61A1]

COR stopped us overloading because the grain dumps would not unload if we were more than 5%

What would be wrong with putting the responsibility on the driver who overloads? We are genuinely a nation of f*ckwits if we need to penalise someone for not stopping someone else's stupidity.

[Flying Binghi]

...If you had one truck and no aircraft, you'd still have more trucks than aircraft.

 

Hmmm, ..that looks like part of a question in an IQ test I did years ago..?

 

 

 

 

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[onetrack]

What would be wrong with putting the responsibility on the driver who overloads? We are genuinely a nation of f*ckwits if we need to penalise someone for not stopping someone else's stupidity.

 

The problem in the trucking industry is that truck drivers working for the larger companies are there to just drive the truck. They don't load it, a load dispatcher arranges and oversees that part.

The forklift driver loads on what he's told, must go on the truck, and the truck driver takes off. The truck drivers often don't even secure their loads, that's often done by someone working in the depot.

The truck drivers in the large companies don't even change their own flat tyres, they call up the company tyre vehicle, or the tyre company vehicle, and a tyre fitter changes the flat for them. It's all about job skills and job descriptions limits.

A truck driver rarely gets to go over a weighbridge, unless he's ordered to by a transport inspector or police. So the truck driver often cannot be held directly responsible for overloading, because the loading is not under his direct control.

[M61A1]

The problem in the trucking industry is that truck drivers working for the larger companies are there to just drive the truck. They don't load it, a load dispatcher arranges and oversees that part.

The forklift driver loads on what he's told, must go on the truck, and the truck driver takes off. The truck drivers often don't even secure their loads, that's often done by someone working in the depot.

The truck drivers in the large companies don't even change their own flat tyres, they call up the company tyre vehicle, or the tyre company vehicle, and a tyre fitter changes the flat for them. It's all about job skills and job descriptions limits.

A truck driver rarely gets to go over a weighbridge, unless he's ordered to by a transport inspector or police. So the truck driver often cannot be held directly responsible for overloading, because the loading is not under his direct control.

Things must be different in WA. Every place I've worked that loaded trucks had a weighbridge and the driver told you when to stop loading and where to put the load, then was checked on the weighbridge on the way out.

[Guest Machtuk]

Hmmm, ..that looks like part of a question in an IQ test I did years ago..?

 

 

 

 

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Still waiting on the correct answer after all these years???

[johnm]

If you had one truck and no aircraft, you'd still have more trucks than aircraft.

 

is it that a single truck can't be defined as 'trucks' ....................... is that the answer - is it ?

[Mike Gearon]

We are all aviators after all and all love flying or else we wouldn't spend money time and effort doing it. Everyone gets to know little planes are much harder to fly than big stuff. There's a lot of ex airline folks who won't fly U/L's. When you get one who does He/she must be 1/2 OK? Maybe ??? Nev.

I’ve thought that. So, it’s true the big ones are easier? Not talking all the instruments, first officer checking over the manual, radio etc. Just plain input. Control surfaces and power.

 

If so, it’s like backing a little 6x4ft trailer compared to a tandem. The little one is incredibly difficult because it goes wrong so quick. The longer the tandem the slower it is to move off line and correspondingly easier to realign. I back onto a barge on French Island and you go off the barge ramp fairly easily with a trailer!

 

My experience (admittedly limited so far) GA to LSA to Ultralights has a corresponding change. Goes wrong much quicker as you get lighter.

[Guest Machtuk]

I’ve thought that. So, it’s true the big ones are easier? Not talking all the instruments, first officer checking over the manual, radio etc. Just plain input. Control surfaces and power.

 

If so, it’s like backing a little 6x4ft trailer compared to a tandem. The little one is incredibly difficult because it goes wrong so quick. The longer the tandem the slower it is to move off line and correspondingly easier to realign. I back onto a barge on French Island and you go off the barge ramp fairly easily with a trailer!

 

My experience (admittedly limited so far) GA to LSA to Ultralights has a corresponding change. Goes wrong much quicker as you get lighter.

 

That's somewhat true. It's a myth the 'big ones are eaiser'. The smaller/ lighter the more difficult it is to fly accurately. Larger heavy metal tend to ride the bumps better, higher speeds offers a buffer, energy has a lot to do with it also. The word 'harder' isn't really a good analogy between larger/heavier and smaller/lighter it's just different?

[facthunter]

Large aircraft have lots of inertia. Little and light aircraft don't. It depends on what you get used to.. A large aircraft keeps doing what it's doing longer but when it's doing the wrong thing it needs a lot of force to get it back where you want it to be. You need to be "stabilised" at a higher level/distance on approach, for instance.

Smaller wingspans react more to gusts (roll) even if they have faster approach speeds to give better penetration. Going wrong at high speeds is worse than going wrong at slow speeds. Nev

[Mike Gearon]

Going wrong at high speeds is worse than going wrong at slow speeds. Nev

That’s a tricky one. Relative I guess. Going wrong at higher speed means you have more control surface response to fix things more forcefully. Slower speed wrong is my number one concern. I’m always glancing at air speed. Particularly when close to the ground.

[Guest Machtuk]

Both ends of the speedo scale can be troublesome but generally the bottom end is far more dangerous especially for light weight machines with high drag. Take the B747 during test certification they took the airframe to Mach 0.99, now that would have been fun? I've accidently overspend a few diff jets, not much happens other than you are in the poo with the boss? I've recently bought a LSA and have been practising slow flight and aggressive control movements at altitude of course, gets ugly real quick?

I'm of the belief that it's too easy to get a plane drivers ticket, not enuf upset recovery is practiced. Too many have stalled and spun in over the years so unesesarily!

[facthunter]

I'm not talking of losing control. That's really a no brainer. It's the distance/magnitude of the error. You are covering the ground really fast . Look how folks are way behind the plane when they don't plan properly or are back from leave . It even happens when some get in a C 210 let alone when you are doing 8NM a minute.

You are singing my tune on unusual attitude recovery. I've been pushing that for years. They aren't called 3 axis for nothing. You should have got a Pitts or similar which is strong. .Nev