How has COVID 19 affected your flying or intended flying

[octave]

Looks like they have trouble actually identifying Coronavirus at times...?

 

From back in 2003...

 

“...an outbreak of respiratory illness due to HCoV-OC43. The observed attack rate of 67% and case fatality rate of 8% underscore the pathogenic potential of HCoVs in frail populations. This adds to other observations underscoring that CoVs other than SARS-CoV may be responsible for a broader spectrum of disease than coryza alone...”

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095096/

 

 

 

 

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So what exactly is your point here?

[Flying Binghi]

If yer believe the media then Italy had a virus outbreak before China did..?

 

“...A “strange pneumonia” was circulating in northern Italy as long ago as November, weeks before doctors were made aware of the novel coronavirus outbreak in China, one of the European country’s leading medical experts said this week...

 

...The debate over the possible origin of the pathogen has also been at the heart of a war of words between Beijing and Washington, with Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian among a number of Chinese officials and diplomats to amplify a conspiracy theory that the coronavirus outbreak might have started in the United States and been carried to Wuhan by the US Army.

 

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had previously infuriated Beijing by calling it the “Wuhan virus”, and US President Donald Trump responded to the conspiracy theory by referring to it as the “Chinese virus”. Zhao then said on Twitter: “By calling it ‘China virus’ and thus suggesting its origin without any supporting facts or evidence, some media clearly want China to take the blame, and their ulterior motives are laid bare.”...”

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3076334/coronavirus-strange-pneumonia-seen-lombardy-november-leading

 

 

 

 

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[octave]

If yer believe the media then Italy had a virus outbreak before China did..?

 

“...A “strange pneumonia” was circulating in northern Italy as long ago as November, weeks before doctors were made aware of the novel coronavirus outbreak in China, one of the European country’s leading medical experts said this week...

 

...The debate over the possible origin of the pathogen has also been at the heart of a war of words between Beijing and Washington, with Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian among a number of Chinese officials and diplomats to amplify a conspiracy theory that the coronavirus outbreak might have started in the United States and been carried to Wuhan by the US Army.

 

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had previously infuriated Beijing by calling it the “Wuhan virus”, and US President Donald Trump responded to the conspiracy theory by referring to it as the “Chinese virus”. Zhao then said on Twitter: “By calling it ‘China virus’ and thus suggesting its origin without any supporting facts or evidence, some media clearly want China to take the blame, and their ulterior motives are laid bare.”...”

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3076334/coronavirus-strange-pneumonia-seen-lombardy-november-leading

 

 

 

 

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So point one would be, this is a good reason not to refer to it as China flu or Wuhan flu?

 

Point two would be does this change how we handle this problem?

 

Also: Chicago infant dies after testing positive for coronavirus, governor says

[Geoff13]

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[Flying Binghi]

Meanwhile as of today in Italy 13155 deaths which includes 60 doctors.

 

 

Is this some of the Doctors ?...?

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20200328152430/https://portale.fnomceo.it/elenco-dei-medici-caduti-nel-corso-dellepidemia-di-covid-19/

 

Of course if yer look at the latest version of that archived copy you will note the date of birth has been removed - Strange..?

 

https://portale.fnomceo.it/elenco-dei-medici-caduti-nel-corso-dellepidemia-di-covid-19/

 

 

 

You seem to think that when comparing flu and covid that they are mutually exclusive. Australia is entering the flu season. Flu season does tax the medical system so adding a huge influx of covid cases only makes it more difficult.

 

 

Where did I claim that ?

 

 

 

Yes most people who die are older or have pre existing conditions. The notion that people with preexisting conditions would dies soon any way si nonsense. Many 50 years olds with elevated blood pressure are not on deaths door and could expect many more years of useful life...

 

 

Yep. Mostly older people.

 

The younger with higher blood pressure/heart conditions. Nothing like a trip to hospital to build the hysteria level and give em a heart attack..?

 

Plus, that hospital visit can kill ya..?

 

“...One retrospective study of critically-ill patients with MERS found that almost half of the people that received steroids needed additional treatments such as assistance in breathing, drugs to increase blood pressure, and a form of dialysis. Those given steroids were found to take longer to clear the virus from their bodies...”

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200206110703.htm

 

 

I suppose all hospital problems are now listed as “Died from Caronavirus”...?

 

 

 

 

 

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[pmccarthy]

German measles. Turkish delight. Spanish flu. Chinese virus. Works for me.

[Flying Binghi]

German measles. Turkish delight. Spanish flu. Chinese virus. Works for me.

 

What I’m seeing around the web is the “CCP Virus”

 

The “Chinese Communist Party Virus”

 

A far more ‘precise’ term that reflects the likely originators..?

 

 

 

 

 

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[Flying Binghi]

Me old granny used to tell me the sun is good for ya...?

 

“...Scientists have long investigated why the flu season dramatically ends in the warmer months. One key factor is our immune systems improve when sun shining on our skin produces the all-important Vitamin D. It is a form of vitamin D that is more effective than what is added to our milk.

 

Researchers reported, “vitamin D deficiency is common in the winter, and activated vitamin D, a steroid hormone, has profound effects on human immunity. D acts as an immune system modulator, preventing excessive expression of inflammatory cytokines and increasing the ‘oxidative burst’ potential of macrophages. Perhaps most importantly, it dramatically stimulates the expression of potent anti-microbial peptides, which exist in neutrophils, monocytes, natural killer cells, and in epithelial cells lining the respiratory tract where they play a major role in protecting the lung from infection. Volunteers inoculated with live attenuated influenza virus are more likely to develop fever and serological evidence of an immune response in the winter. Vitamin D deficiency predisposes children to respiratory infections.

 

If we do not get enough sunshine, sheltering in place just might have the unintended consequence of prolonging the COVID 19 epidemic. As the elderly become less mobile and spend less time outside, a vitamin D deficiency would only amplify their vulnerability.

 

April is the time flu infections dramatically fall. Of course, the COVID 19 virus differs from influenza, but our immune system’s ability to fight all viruses is key. Maybe a.....” Continues: Fight the Virus with Sunshine

 

 

 

 

 

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[octave]

Of course if yer look at the latest version of that archived copy you will note the date of birth has been removed - Strange..?

oooh conspiracy, let me get me my tin foil hat.

 

The fact is that 60 doctors have died in Italy as well as other countries.

 

Yep. Mostly older people.

 

So that's ok is it? By the way younger people do die from it, yes perhaps they may have a preexisting condition but most human beings don't regard people with preexisting conditions as collateral damage in order to protect the Dow Jones.

 

The younger with higher blood pressure/heart conditions. Nothing like a trip to hospital to build the hysteria level and give em a heart attack..?

 

Thanks for the diagnosis doctor. The point is this is a supposition that you cling to support your proposition. My presumption is that at least some of these cases are subject post mortem. Why on earth would overworked doctors inflate the numbers by declaring deaths from heart attack as covid?

 

“...One retrospective study of critically-ill patients with MERS found that almost half of the people that received steroids needed additional treatments such as assistance in breathing, drugs to increase blood pressure, and a form of dialysis. Those given steroids were found to take longer to clear the virus from their bodies...”

 

So you think this is what is happening do you, in your expert opinion. Are Covid patients still being given steroids, I mean I don't know do you?.

 

I suppose all hospital problems are now listed as “Died from Caronavirus”...?

 

Again this is a supposition with no evidence. I would imagine that doctors can't just scrawl any old cause of death they feel like. And why would they inflate the covid numbers? I am sure they would rather be able to go home to their families after their shift rather than stay in isolation.

 

You seem desperate to prove that covid is an exaggerated problem in any way you can. from suggestinging deaths of younger people might be caused by their veganism to the misrepresentation of causes of death. I can't help but think you may be in denial.

[Flying Binghi]

Just been reading the research that were linked in the article I referenced earlier: Fight the Virus with Sunshine

 

“...If vitamin D is Hope-Simpson’s ‘seasonal stimulus’, then countries with low 25(OH)D levels and marked wintertime troughs should have higher excess wintertime mortality than do countries with high 25(OH)D levels and little seasonal variation. For example, Norway has the highest 25(OH)D levels in Europe (thought to be due to its high year-round consumption of fish and cod liver oil) [59]. Levels of 25(OH)D in Scandinavia display the least seasonal variation in Europe; indeed there is virtually no 25(OH)D seasonal variation among the elderly in Scandinavia [60]. On the other hand, the elderly in Great Britain have low 25(OH)D levels and such deficiencies are much more common during the influenza season...”

 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/C4D90C6E7CB127E6DF7A52D3A9EE2974/S0950268806007175a.pdf/epidemic_influenza_and_vitamin_d.pdf

 

 

........?...........so thats why all them oldies move to the Gold Coast and eat out at sea food restaurants...?

 

 

 

 

 

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[spacesailor]

“You may not like the wealthy people, but they are the ones paying for most of the stuff that most people get from their government. "

Not if their lawyers can minimise their $millions, CEO's $53 million a year to sign a few paper that managers have spent months getting right.

They should have signed off on them, before, giving away such huge sums of money.

 

Octave " So what is your theory? some kind of conspiracy? "

YES

Defiantly, A big one from many governments, to cut that huge burden, of too many oldies, being supported by the young workers of today !.

DA DA

BUT its going to cost them (governments ) A LOT.

spacesailor

[octave]

“You may not like the wealthy people, but they are the ones paying for most of the stuff that most people get from their government. "

Not if their lawyers can minimise their $millions, CEO's $53 million a year to sign a few paper that managers have spent months getting right.

They should have signed off on them, before, giving away such huge sums of money.

 

Octave " So what is your theory? some kind of conspiracy? "

YES

Defiantly, A big one from many governments, to cut that huge burden, of too many oldies, being supported by the young workers of today !.

DA DA

BUT its going to cost them (governments ) A LOT.

spacesailor

 

I see no conspiracy here. It is not the first pandemic and won't be the last.

[spacesailor]

Octave

You have to admit this & other governments are always bleating about the number of us OLDIES.

spacesailor

[willedoo]

Octave, I don't know if you ever played cricket but I recon you would have been a good batsman. They keep chucking balls at you and you keep batting them right back.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I have to say, I bucked out of this one.. .

 

Assertion - the maths show low death rates...

 

Reality - they do, but the rate of indection and the rate of hospitalisation shows that the leaths services of whatever coutnry would be quickly overwhelmed - and the death rate would then increase...

 

Assertion - doctors and health experts don't no what they're talking about... and a spreading hysteria and fear mongerung..

 

Reality - Armchair pilots are the same with aviation....

 

Repeat the assertions and defences over and over again...

 

I gave up biting when there was nothing new that was being asserted... @octave, I understand why you're doing it, but.... seriously.. when then inlet valves are closed,.. not much you can do...

[turboplanner]

Have a look at this:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/billions-of-face-masks-sent-to-china-during-australian-bushfire-crisis-20200402-p54gjh.html

[Jim McDowall]

Off the top of my head I am not sure but one thing i note is that the John Hopkins figures are a little behind.

 

So what is your theory? some kind of conspiracy?

No theory, just an observation of the way bureaucracies work. Once a method of control is "discovered" they use it over and over to control the population. Sure the emergency powers have existed for some time but this is the first time they have been used in such a coordinated way across the nation. The question is, will the next "crisis" result in such a economy destroying over-reach of regulation?

[Flying Binghi]

 

...

 

Assertion - the maths show low death rates...

 

Reality - they do, but the rate of indection and the rate of hospitalisation shows that the leaths services of whatever coutnry would be quickly overwhelmed - and the death rate would then increase...

 

Assertion - doctors and health experts don't no what they're talking about... and a spreading hysteria and fear mongerung...

 

 

 

Where is the assertion that “doctors and health experts don’t know what they’re talking about”..?..?

 

If yer a soldier on the front lines all you see is your immediate surrounds - Overloaded hospitals treating hysteria whilst patients with real issues are not properly attended to and die... and after sitting in a hospital for a few days then yer gots CCP virus in the test even if you didn’t go there with it..?

 

Via Germany:

 

“...Many have told me in emails a great suffering that people have created through the focus on Corona and/or the lockdown. Cancer sufferers are on morphine because the upcoming surgery has been postponed to provide beds for Corona sufferers. A doctor writes to me that the elderly and people with many pre-existing conditions – but without corona – are already no longer admitted by many hospitals, even though beds are free. A doctor writes that it is very bad for dementia sufferers and can even be fatal if the general conditions suddenly change, i.e. the daughter is no longer visited. Domestic violence increases in the extreme stress of isolation and massive fears. All of these are terrible consequences, which of course should be taken into account in the context of a lockdown decision...”

 

https://pflege-prisma.de/2020/03/31/sterbezahlen-in-pflegeheimen/

 

 

“The maths show low death rates” - The annual rate of all cause mortality is what you should be looking at to compare current death rates to previous death rates.

 

Via the above article:

 

“...Every day, around 900 people die in German nursing homes. This figure is based on a conversion of the death figures for 2018, which was recorded by the Federal Statistical Office. Even before Corona, it was common in the winter months that many residents died in a relatively short time, without television crews standing at the door and showing people wrapped in protective suits, who heroically expose themselves to the risk of infection...

 

..In 2018, a total of 954,874 people died in Germany. The day with the highest death toll was March 3, 2018, on which day 3,863 people died in Germany. In the period between February and mid-April, the daily death rate was well above 3,000, for the rest of the year, with one exception in August, it was between 2,300 and 3,000. On March 3, 2018, 2,302 people in the age group aged 80 and over died in Germany... (Source: Federal Statistical Office)...

 

At the moment we are still waiting for the big rush of Corona patients in this country. However, this will not exist, because it can already be seen that the Corona flu here in Germany is more like the most healthy people: "If I didn't have the test result, I would live on as normal. I have no symptoms at all," read a newspaper report today. With 700 "Corona deaths" (stand 31.03.20) of which no one knows what actually died, it should gradually dawn on everyone that we have no Italian conditions to fear here..

 

..While the leading media is trying to keep the level of fear high over growing numbers and images of coffins carried from nursing homes, so that people stay at home, critical journalists have revealed that the case numbers are misleading...”

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Flying Binghi]

oooh conspiracy, let me get me my tin foil hat.

 

The fact is that 60 doctors have died in Italy as well as other countries.

 

 

I provided two reference to the same news article. The first version of the article referenced the date of birth of the ‘doctors’ that died and the later version had the date of birth removed..? ...Now, the question might be asked what were the ages of these doctors that died? (One were ninety) What did these doctors actually die from? And, were the ‘doctors’ actually still working as doctors when they died..?

 

I suppose if yer find answers to these questions it would get yer thinking about hysterical media reporting boosting an issue...?

 

 

 

 

 

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[kgwilson]

I have to say, I bucked out of this one.. .

I gave up biting when there was nothing new that was being asserted... @octave, I understand why you're doing it, but.... seriously.. when then inlet valves are closed,.. not much you can do...

Just put him/her/them on your ignore list. Problem solved.

[Flying Binghi]

Via, Professor John Oxford. Influenza specialist...

 

“...Personally, I would say the best advice is to spend less time watching TV news which is sensational and not very good.

 

Personally, I view this Covid outbreak as akin to a bad winter influenza epidemic.

 

In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc.

 

I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number. We are suffering from a media epidemic!...”

 

 

https://novuscomms.com/2020/03/31/a-view-from-the-hvivo-open-orphan-orph-laboratory-professor-john-oxford/

 

 

 

 

 

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[octave]

I provided two reference to the same news article. The first version of the article referenced the date of birth of the ‘doctors’ that died and the later version had the date of birth removed..? ...Now, the question might be asked what were the ages of these doctors that died? (One were ninety) What did these doctors actually die from? And, were the ‘doctors’ actually still working as doctors when they died..?

 

I suppose if yer find answers to these questions it would get yer thinking about hysterical media reporting boosting an issue...?

 

 

 

 

 

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Do you believe that 60 doctors dying in a couple of months is the normal death rate? I find your lack of compassion to be quite distasteful. At every turn you attempt to present this as a non event. The situation in the US especially New York is grim. If you cant see that then nothing I see will change your mind.

[octave]

Via, Professor John Oxford. Influenza specialist...

 

“...Personally, I would say the best advice is to spend less time watching TV news which is sensational and not very good.

 

Personally, I view this Covid outbreak as akin to a bad winter influenza epidemic.

 

In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc.

 

I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number. We are suffering from a media epidemic!...”

 

 

https://novuscomms.com/2020/03/31/a-view-from-the-hvivo-open-orphan-orph-laboratory-professor-john-oxford/

 

 

 

 

 

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from the article you quoted

 

But a second piece of good news is that the Chinese are lifting their social distancing and the country is slowly getting back to normal. At the same time, an Australian Mathematical model paper is published which clearly predicts that compliance with “social distancing” must be 80 or 90% otherwise it will not work. My friend Peter Doherty in Australia has reminded everyone that the positive effects of this intervention similar to which we are trying to do here) will take 2 weeks to filter through to fewer deaths etc, so do not expect instant results! Incidentally Peter has ‘form’ because of his Nobel Prize! There must be 80-90% compliance.

[Jim McDowall]

Have a look at this article. Is this what the future may hold?

Police State beckons

[Jim McDowall]

Getting back to flying, how is it that an activity that you undertake by yourself in any way threatening public order or safety? Banning golf may be acceptable on psychological grounds (20 years of experience in that form of personal abuse) but maybe healthier than staying indoors.