Kit builders- how do you maintain your enthusiasm?

[Thruster88]

Rod Stiff said once that his big mistake was to make a kit that any fool could build. Burt Rutan gave up kits for the same reason. The fools wore him out.

So hang in there Danny

 

As a casual observer of jabiru from the beginning of time the fools have never had a single issue with the air frame.

[karol45]

Zistiť, že mnoho ľudí má problém so stavbou zo stavebnice / KIT / a preto je viacnásobné v tej istej stavebnici a potom ho nevedia stavať. Akcie, ktoré sú k dispozícii alebo nie sú k dispozícii, sú k dispozícii na nákup stavebných strojov. Skyranger Nynja, alebo Swift 2. Bývam ale na Slovensku, mesto Trnava, EU. Odpoviem každému, kto mi chce ponúknuť KIT. Ďakujem.

[karol45]

Zistiť, že mnoho ľudí má problém so stavbou zo stavebnice / KIT / a preto ho nevedia postaviť. Mám záujem postaviť KIT Skyranger Nynja, alebo Swift 2. Bývam ale na Slovensku, mesto Trnava, EU. Odpoviem, kto mi chce ponúknuť KIT. Ďakujem.

[Geoff_H]

My project is not a lot. It is my own design. It is the second aircraft project I have been building over the last 20 years. There was a gap of 7 years when I owned the Mooney and basically worked in WA. However I regret not building at lest someone else's plans. A particular piece of folded light gauge aluminium took me 6 goes to get right.many parts have rebuilt at least once. I love the design part, after all I still regard myself as an engineer albeit a retired one. The maths is fun, the building disappoints me, I am not so great a tradesman. Over 70 so building hours per day significantly down. I try to do a little each day, a lot somedays. My current say home no matter what, covid-19 for over 70's, has me enthused with the wife only demanding some yard work (no shopping) things are happening.

Geoff

[old man emu]

Zistiť, že mnoho ľudí má problém so stavbou zo stavebnice / KIT / a preto je viacnásobné v tej istej stavebnici a potom ho nevedia stavať. Akcie, ktoré sú k dispozícii alebo nie sú k dispozícii, sú k dispozícii na nákup stavebných strojov. Skyranger Nynja, alebo Swift 2. Bývam ale na Slovensku, mesto Trnava, EU. Odpoviem každému, kto mi chce ponúknuť KIT. akujem.

 

TRANSLATED VIA GOOGLE TRANSLATE

 

To find out that many people have a problem with a construction kit (KIT) and therefore it is multiple in the same kit and then they can not build it. Available or unavailable shares are available for purchase of construction machinery. Skyranger Nynja, or Swift 2. I live in Slovakia, Trnava, EU. I will answer anyone who wants to offer me KIT. Well thank you.

[GeoffRV7]

Hey Danny. This is kinda good.

[danny_galaga]

Some people have a better aptitude and skills base for building an aeroplane. One of the stated purposes is "self education" and skills development. Fine, but you can muck up a kit this way and it's most challenging (if not impossible)_ task to correct a lot of faults post build. Nev

 

I am confident enough about having the aptitude to build this kit. In fact I think I would rather have built from plans, but I knew being the procrastinator that I am that it would take me years. Hence the kit. But it's not the one stop solution I thought it would be. Many of the sections have parts missing or incorrect, which for me really effects my inertia. Others rise to the challenge, but I just become apprehensive about each new section I start- what's going to be wrong with this section?

 

That's only part of how I've become down about it. When we ordered the kit, it took months and months to get to us. That left us a bit listless and for a bit of fun we started house hunting. Well we ended up buying a block of land to build a house on! Then we got reamed by the landscapers for an extra ten grand. That's most of the cash I had for a second hand engine and instruments.

 

Now the house is underway and of course we helped break the dry spell by having the slab scheduled. Yep pretty much two weeks of rain! And now the architect has screwed up the roof design. The trusses are in already, after we went and ran camera, data and speaker cables!

 

Grrrr

 

On the plus side, I have been slowly accumulating instruments to build the instrument panel. The altimeter is coming from Slovenia. Is that a coincidence with that post above?

The instrument panel is down to me so there is nothing to be apprehensive about there.

 

Right now I'm about to stitch the sails on the ailerons. Of course there's not enough cord in the kit. A lesson in saving offcuts. I have enough for one panel, and I think I can knot two bits of cord together for the other...

[Kyle Communications]

Danny

 

Everyone has problems your not on your lonesome in the domestic area either. You use your build as a escape from those problems...I certainly do

When I am building I have a totally different mindset and find it very cathartic as while building I can work out how to fix the next domestic klusterf#ck that rears its ugly head

I can give you a pretty good list of problems I have been dealing with over the past 12 months.....your biggest problem is non availabilty of parts which is hampering your kit...this is where you need to be kicking the dealers bum all the way to the post office and you want them airfreighted not bloody sea freight either or they rob a existing kit for the parts missing from yours. No need to be nasty about it as its out of the locals guys hands but they have a duty to you to back up what they sell

[facthunter]

You are the one who will decide Danny. My comment is GENERAL not directed at you specifically. You must not overload yourself if you have the option. Remember THIS is for fun rather than being essential to life. Building a house is enough drama in it's own right. Nev

[bexrbetter]

set yourself small targets to acheive and you feel like you have succeeded with them each time.

 

Do not go to the next target until you are willing and prepared to see it through.

 

Do not start a target late Sunday if you cant finish it because you have towork through the week, leave to start the next Fri evening or Sat morning knowing you can finish that task over the weekend.

[ev17ifly2]

Danny, as you know I took delivery of the same kit at the same time you did, in fact it was shipped in the same container. My BushCat was completed and flying within 12 months. Sure, there are some differences - I’m semi-retired, have a massive shed, 10mins drive to my hangar and have free access to other aviation experts. But, I have never built an aircraft either. However I did experience a number of the gripes you have regarding the kit but I either contacted the factory who addressed any issue immediately and if any parts were required shipped them via DHL Express. They arrived in regional Victoria within 6 working days. Otherwise instead of stewing over it I came up with a work around.

I worked in corporate most of my life and have never dealt with a company that is so customer focused as SkyReach, and as a result I now have a great kit built LSA which I enjoy flying.

PS, if you’re frustrated now just wait until you get the the paperwork and compliance.

[old man emu]

Just an update on the progress of my saddle seat. I've cut all the formers and set out their positions on the spine. I'm just waiting for the glue to set on the support brackets so that I can glue the formers to the spine. After that I've just got to fit a base and then attach it to the gas strut. Apart from cutting the tip of my finger with the band saw, everything is going along swimmingly.

 

Thanks again, Danny, for getting me going.

[spacesailor]

Working your fingers to the bone. LoL

spacesailor

[danny_galaga]

Just so you don't think I'm JUST sitting around whinging, just finished an aileron while the better half watched Married at First Sight. That show is good for SOMETHING at least :D

[M61A1]

Just so you don't think I'm JUST sitting around whinging, just finished an aileron while the better half watched Married at First Sight. That show is good for SOMETHING at least :D

If that's how the whole aircraft goes together, you should have it finished by this coming Friday....

[IBob]

It may also be worth talking about expectations here.

 

It's my observation that some unrealistically low build times go the rounds. Whether these originate with the manufacturers I do not know, but it's obviously not in their interest to dispute them, so they don't.

How unrealistic? In some cases ridiculously so: numbers like half or a third of the actual time builds are generally taking.

 

How does this happen? My guess is that the more 'optimistic' numbers come from factory builds and build shops, where the builders are on their second or more build of the same model of aircraft, so know pretty much how it all goes, what tools to use where, and what workarounds are required. In other words, they are spending all their time building, and very little time having to think about how to build and in what order.

 

So why doesn't this get corrected? My guess (again) would be that a lot of builders do not keep an accurate log of hours spent. I didn't, so my build time would be a guess. And my other guess is that most builders are reluctant to put up their hand and say their build took them twice or three times what the rumoured build time 'should' be.

[spacesailor]

I was OFFLINE, doing anything for years, because of Osteo hip,

Just to stand at my workbench was too painful after only minutes.

Now have to find time with a million jobs backed up awaiting my enthusiasm to return for each differant job, !

spacesailor

[old man emu]

I mentioned that Danny's post kicked me into action to get on with making a saddle seat office chair. I've been doing a bit each day for the past few days, and here is where I am up to.

 

Here's a picture of the spine of the mount, looking from front to rear. The spine is a length of banister rail with transverse blocks into which the formers will go.

 

 

Here's a picture of the spine and formers in place. When sat upon, the saddle will force itself down onto the spine and the formers will act like a horse's ribs. The threaded rod, penny washers and nuts are to keep the formers in their relative positions, and to remove some flex if present.

 

 

At the moment, the formers are clamped down while the glue sets. After that, the bottoms of the formers will be attached to a rectangular piece of ply that will secure them. The base plate will then be attached to the metal seat base which has the gas strut in it. A bit of paint and people will think it's a bought one.

[Geoff13]

That looks like a genuine Cavalry Saddle, could you show a photo of the other side please. Circa early 1900's

If it is what I think it is then it is truly a collectors item.

I have actually ridden on one, a truly uncomfortable piece of equipment if ever there was one.

[old man emu]

could you show a photo of the other side please.

 

I'll post a picture tomorrow. It is in pretty good nick, but I don't think it's that old.

[eightyknots]

...But then that is just me. Fifty percent of kits that are started never get finished for numerous reasons. If you decide you don't want to be part of that 50% set some goals for small bits, take specific breaks and do other things & come back with a goal for the next bit & you will get it done. Anyway what else are you going to do for the next 6 months if you can't go anywhere or meet anyone.

 

I wish I could find the USA-based survey again that I read some time ago. It was something like this: after 5 years from the date of purchase only about ¼ of homebuilt projects had been completed. Furthermore, of those that had not been completed around 50% were less than half done. These are not good stats.

 

I hope you get your project done soon Danny. BTW: what aircraft are you constructing?

[IBob]

eightyknots it would certainly be interesting to get a more detailed look at that survey.

 

In particular, I think a breakdown by aircraft type would be essential: different projects/kits require very varying amounts of skill and time to complete, making overall average figures pretty much meaningless, I would think. Or, put another way, I would expect to find a large proportion of aircraft A (very complete kit, simple assembly, good instructions etc) completed, and a much smaller proportion of aircraft B (requires advanced skills and techniques, including fitting abilities).

 

I have also grown wary of things that say 'studies reveal.............etc'. Often, as with the study you cite, the study is US based: they do a huge proportion of studies, so this is to be expected, and I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the inference that 'this is how it is', as though what happens in the US is necessarily what happens worldwide. It's not: the US is, in fact a highly atypical society in a number of ways, so studies in the US often do not extrapolate well beyond their borders.

 

I'm not suggesting you made this inference: in fact you specifically said 'a US-based study'. I just have a bit of a thing about it!

End of rant.........................

[onetrack]

A simple way to measure the stats, would be tracking the number of sales of part-finished aircraft. I wouldn't be surprised to see a fair number for sale, due to the death of the kit owner.

I recently sighted an ad for a 20 year old RV-6 kit, that was for sale - as it came from the factory, untouched.

[eightyknots]

eightyknots it would certainly be interesting to get a more detailed look at that survey.

 

In particular, I think a breakdown by aircraft type would be essential: different projects/kits require very varying amounts of skill and time to complete, making overall average figures pretty much meaningless, I would think. Or, put another way, I would expect to find a large proportion of aircraft A (very complete kit, simple assembly, good instructions etc) completed, and a much smaller proportion of aircraft B (requires advanced skills and techniques, including fitting abilities).

 

I have also grown wary of things that say 'studies reveal.............etc'. Often, as with the study you cite, the study is US based: they do a huge proportion of studies, so this is to be expected, and I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the inference that 'this is how it is', as though what happens in the US is necessarily what happens worldwide. It's not: the US is, in fact a highly atypical society in a number of ways, so studies in the US often do not extrapolate well beyond their borders.

 

I'm not suggesting you made this inference: in fact you specifically said 'a US-based study'. I just have a bit of a thing about it!

End of rant.........................

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I do not want to over-generalise but I have mixed with and worked with people from the United States over a lengthy time span. Two things that that I have noticed that appears to be common to the few dozen US people I have gotten to know (despite the small sample size) are:

1. they often speak a few decibels louder than.other nationalities: and,

2. that they often want 'instant' results. To back up my personal observations we only have to look at the U S: they have invented all kinds of things such as:

* automatic gearboxes.

* fast food restaurants, an idea widely exported elsewhere.

* drive in theatres, churches, weddings, etc.

* Quick Build aeroplane kits.

 

The people I have worked with -and mixed with- frequently became impatient, frustrated even, if things were not automatic or instant.

 

Because home made aircraft construction is neither automatic nor instant (as much of US society is), I can well imagine that many projects are left incomplete.

 

Having said this, I am sure that there are many patient, persevering aircraft builders who complete their aeroplanes (actually, airplanes in the USA).

 

The United States has a good number of things that has been brought into the world, including aviation itself.

 

BTW: I cannot find the survey results. I am sure that they are out there somewhere. On thing that I did come across is that home built aircraft typically take between 1,000 and 3,000 hours: Experimental Aircraft Information | EAA .

[kgwilson]

1002 hours before first engine start (from my build log) over 4 years and 368 build days. Note that this was only build time. I excluded planning ( fart arsing around & moving stuff) and cleanup times.