Jacobs Well incident 5th April 2020

[facthunter]

Is partial power loss on take off taught and later emphasised on BFR's.? .I have my doubts. Don't take a fault into the air if you can avoid it. A 912 can have the simplest of all variable pitch set ups A straight manual push-pull rod through the driveshaft. Failure mode is generally to fine and the stop should be set so as to permit flight power above stall speed without over revving. Nev

[Yenn]

Partial power failures can be worse than complete failures. There is the temptation to continue on, trying to nurse your way round a circuit. There is also the possibility of the engine running for a short time, cutting out, then running again. It all comes down to making the correct decisions.

The best situation is to say to yourself at the first sign of a problem " the insurance company owns the plane" and act accordingly.

[kgwilson]

I can't really see it being a pitch issue. It would normally be set to full fine for takeoff & a pitch system failure should revert to full fine anyway. More likely a fuel or breathing issue. Only the Pilot would know why he didn't choose the available roads.

[Mike Gearon]

Yes you are correct John, unfortunately at this time, one confirmed fatality and one serious and taken to hospital. The aircraft just didn't make power on takeoff and it was like it was only slightly revving not producing full power. They crashed into trees about 1 km from the runway and never gained enough height to clear the tree line. There were so many other options available including three roads right where they crashed which could have been used very happily for landing. I know they say don't turn back but one of these roads is only about 30° off the runway heading and is clear 20 m either side so it is about five times wider than the runway they just came off. None of it makes much sense at the moment, rescuers were on-site within minutes because they witnessed the takeoff. There was also a small fire. RA-Aus are investigating

News report had the intersection wrong. It’s as you’ve indicated based on ABC reported roads

 

ABC report.......As the plane made a right turn, it clipped an overhead telephone cable and crashed 25 metres from the intersection of Stapylton Jacobs Well Road and Cabbage Tree Point Road near the Heck Field airstrip.

 

Actual intersection is really close to take off. 5-600m If it was as I’ve indicated with yellow line the plane was unlikely to have been making a right hand turn at virtually ground level. Looks like a take off and power loss and not sure how anybody could have improved on the outcome without a bit of luck.

[turboplanner]

I can't really see it being a pitch issue. It would normally be set to full fine for takeoff & a pitch system failure should revert to full fine anyway. More likely a fuel or breathing issue. Only the Pilot would know why he didn't choose the available roads.

The pilot sets it to fine pitch, unless there is some sort of automatic return to fine after the engine is shut down.

Trying to take off in coarse pitch would feel like partial power; a bit like taking off in top gear in a car.

Douglas Bader wrote off a Spitfire after he forgot.

[FlyBoy1960]

Well your all guessing and all wrong (mostly), engine was running till impact and making power. No right turn, actually turning left (for some reason)

[Mike Gearon]

Well your all guessing and all wrong (mostly), engine was running till impact and making power. No right turn, actually turning left (for some reason)

Well, from accident scene on the correct corner (not the news report corner) it looks like the aircraft departed that runway then within 5-600m ditched in. At say 60 knots that’s about 10 or 11 flying seconds.

 

Unless the departure was a different runway that aircraft flew off the runway and directly ahead only seconds later hit the wiring and trees. It can’t have turned at all.

[Flying Binghi]

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Reasons why the aircraft were descending will come out in the accident report.

 

All pilots should know from their basic training just why the aircraft hit the power lines - You don’t see them.

 

Unfortunately the accident pilot were put in a bad situation.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Thruster88]

Well your all guessing and all wrong (mostly), engine was running till impact and making power. No right turn, actually turning left (for some reason)

 

The engine can't have been making any meaningful power if this very efficient aircraft was not climbing. The "turn" was possibly an incipient spin.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Thruster88

[Mike Gearon]

There is certainty in this case. Even if powerlines weren’t seen they are at tree height next to trees. Also, the multi line is away from trees and likely visible. Additionally this is right near the airport and the pilot would know them well. Unfortunately!

 

[Flying Binghi]

There is certainty in this case. Even if powerlines weren’t seen they are at tree height next to trees. Also, the multi line is away from trees and likely visible. Additionally this is right near the airport and the pilot would know them well. Unfortunately!

...

 

As a pilot, ask me what’s on the ground near an airport and I likely couldn’t tell you - to busy flying to be sight seeing. My sight seeing happens once set-up in cruise well away from the high traffic environment of an airport.

 

I’ve done a bit of low level flying in fixed wing and choppers and I know from experience them power lines are very hard to see at the best of times, let alone when yer in a high workload environment just after an engine failure.

 

At any rate, re the prang, all theoretical at the moment.

 

 

 

 

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[Griffon]

I suspect that pilots based at the airfield, as was the case here, would be very well aware of the various wires. The entrance is just a little further along the road.

[M61A1]

As a pilot, ask me what’s on the ground near an airport and I likely couldn’t tell you - to busy flying to be sight seeing. My sight seeing happens once set-up in cruise well away from the high traffic environment of an airport.

Most of the ones I've used more than once though, I tend to take notice of what's where because I like to plan in advance where ever possible where I'm landing when the engine stops. I know I'm not the only one.

[Thruster88]

Most of the ones I've used more than once though, I tend to take notice of what's where because I like to plan in advance where ever possible where I'm landing when the engine stops. I know I'm not the only one.

 

If I am going to a new strip especially if it is farm or private I have a good look on sixmaps.gov or google maps. Windy allows one to form a plan as to the most likely runway and out landing options. Flying a 2 stroke has taught me to never trust the engine even if it is a lycoming, why fly over the pilliga scrub when you can go around for an extra 5 minutes.

[Bruce Tuncks]

On my 550m farm strip, I would apply the brakes then put on full power. If full power didn't develop, I would never have continued with the take-off.

And I never tried taking off with a passenger as they degrade the performance a lot. These days, I use the town strip which is 1000m of bitumen and about the right length I reckon, after having been spoiled by the old WW2 strips at Gawler.

If that Pipistrel had a black box we would know more. Surely there must have been full power at the start.

[Flying Binghi]

OK then, if pilots operating at the airfield are aware of all them wires around the airfield then why are aircraft still flying from the airfield ?...?

 

 

Power checks can be done rolling if you are familiar with what to expect re revs etc.

 

 

 

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[Thruster88]

OK then, if pilots operating at the airfield are aware of all them wires around the airfield then why are aircraft still flying from the airfield ?...?

 

 

Power checks can be done rolling if you are familiar with what to expect re revs etc.

 

 

 

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Have a look on google maps. The power line is well away from the strip about 700m. I dont believe the power line is a factor in the crash as the trees appear to be taller.

 

How many pilots can say from memory what the static rpms are for their aircraft.

[FlyBoy1960]

The trees are at least 5-6 m higher above the top of the power lines.

 

The aircraft hit the power lines 1st, and then crashed into the trees. They only hit the pwer lines first because the power lines were 10 m in front of the trees in the direction of travel.

 

If the power lines had not been there then the aircraft would have smashed into the trees anyway.

 

If anything the power lines probably slowed the arrival into the trees which was calculated on time and distance using sound as 62 knots.

 

Based on the video footage available this was going to be an accident seconds after rotation, the opportunity to land on the rest of the runway, or in a field, or on the road was missed by both pilots in the aircraft

[Flying Binghi]

 

...

Based on the video footage available this was going to be an accident seconds after rotation, the opportunity to land on the rest of the runway, or in a field, or on the road was missed by both pilots in the aircraft

 

Do we have a link to the video ?

 

 

 

 

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[danny_galaga]

Any word on the survivor yet? Or does no one care?

[FlyBoy1960]

The video won't be made available publicly because it has been seized by the police who have requested at it does not get distributed.

 

The survivor has burns to 55% of his body, many of these are deep tissue burns which will require extensive work.

 

He was put into an induced coma immediately on arrival to hospital and they have basically taken as much good skin as they can and patched up the worst areas of the burns.

 

I have been told, they normally keep a burns victim of this type in a coma for between two weeks and four weeks. They have found that this is the best way to treat burns is to knock out the patient, do all of the surgery and not bring them out of the coma for several weeks at best, this way they miss out on a lot of the pain of repeated surgery, waking up, surgery again and so on.

 

At this stage he is expected to make a recovery and will spend at least eight weeks in hospital if everything goes well and then there will be much more work further down the track to try and bring his life back to as normal as possible.

 

This was public information as of yesterday.

[turboplanner]

Any word on the survivor yet? Or does no one care?

 

The word would have to come from the survivor, the family or friends

[facthunter]

Burns are the worst .. especially if you have breathed flames. I hope for the best for this unfortunate person and fellow aviator.. Nev

[slb]

Any word on the survivor yet? Or does no one care?

 

We all care.

And wish him all the very best, in particular under these trying circumstances for his family and friends who may be unable to visit him. Fingers crossed he makes a full recovery.

[onetrack]

The general rule of thumb for burns is, that you add the percentage of burns to the age of the person, and if the total number is over 100, then the chances of the burns victim surviving are slim.

In this case, I'd have to opine the prognosis is grim. Many severe burns victims survive for 3 to 4 weeks before they succumb.