question Are any Flying Schools operating at the moment?

[cooperplace]

MODERATOR WARNING.

If you keep referring to the COVID-19 virus as "ChiCom" or "Chinese Virus" you can expect to be given a time out for offensive behaviour.

COVID-19 is the disease. The virus is SARS-CoV-2.

[old man emu]

COVID-19 is the disease. The virus is SARS-CoV-2.

 

Quite so. And neither term has an adjective describing any ethnic group. In common speech, and you can't get much more common than out meeja, we can accept COVID-19 as the name of the problem we are confronting.

[turboplanner]

I wish RAA, SAA and SAFA would lobby on our behalf. After all RAA have 11,000 members, haven't they? They could do it on mass and through CASA, but nothing so far.

All of those organisations are complying with Directions from Chief Medical Officers under the powers of the State of Emergency.

Normal will not be normal for a few months.

What would you have them do?

With what Australia has done so far we have one of the lightest death tolls in the world; so far we've managed to avoid the blowout, which we know this virus can produce, where other countries have been caught and thousands of people killed. So far, our Health officials are able to report just double digit deaths each day.

Put yourself on the spot; How would you decide? If you let recreational aviators fly they have to leave home, may get some fuel, may get a quick coffee, may meet someone at the Club and have a chat, may get someone to help move aircraft in tha hangar, may use a toilet or chair or lean on the desk or pick up some paperwork or someone may come into their space. On the way home they may have a traffic accident.

Asymptomatic means a person who has the virus but is not showing any symptoms or feeling ill. They don't know they have it so they come out of the isolation the Health Officers put them into. There are many touch points there; and it doesn't have to be limited to the people you see; an infected person could have come in early in the morning and infected the toilet button; at one party 38 people were infected.

You only need one of those touch points to get sick, infect your relatives and the at risk ones could die.

Alternatively, although asymptomatic, you could infect people all the way through those touch points and they or their relatives could die.

So on the one hand, if you don't go flying, no one can die as a result of that journey; if you do fly you can kill someone.

As I said, put yourself on the spot; ask yourself how many people you are prepared to kill vs waiting a few weeks. Then ask your self do you really want the organisations above fighting with the Chief Medical Officers and taking up their time while they try to prevent the potential blow out. Puts a different light on it.

[slb]

All of those organisations are complying with Directions from Chief Medical Officers under the powers of the State of Emergency.

Normal will not be normal for a few months.

What would you have them do?

With what Australia has done so far we have one of the lightest death tolls in the world; so far we've managed to avoid the blowout, which we know this virus can produce, where other countries have been caught and thousands of people killed. So far, our Health officials are able to report just double digit deaths each day.

Put yourself on the spot; How would you decide? If you let recreational aviators fly they have to leave home, may get some fuel, may get a quick coffee, may meet someone at the Club and have a chat, may get someone to help move aircraft in tha hangar, may use a toilet or chair or lean on the desk or pick up some paperwork or someone may come into their space. On the way home they may have a traffic accident.

Asymptomatic means a person who has the virus but is not showing any symptoms or feeling ill. They don't know they have it so they come out of the isolation the Health Officers put them into. There are many touch points there; and it doesn't have to be limited to the people you see; an infected person could have come in early in the morning and infected the toilet button; at one party 38 people were infected.

You only need one of those touch points to get sick, infect your relatives and the at risk ones could die.

Alternatively, although asymptomatic, you could infect people all the way through those touch points and they or their relatives could die.

So on the one hand, if you don't go flying, no one can die as a result of that journey; if you do fly you can kill someone.

As I said, put yourself on the spot; ask yourself how many people you are prepared to kill vs waiting a few weeks. Then ask your self do you really want the organisations above fighting with the Chief Medical Officers and taking up their time while they try to prevent the potential blow out. Puts a different light on it.

 

Sorry my post was poorly worded. I absolutely agree with you. What would be great is if RAA, SAA, SAFA etc. could give a clear concise message to all their members to say “No” you cannot fly for the following reasons in NSW/QLD, however at the moment you can fly if you reside in SA. Or whatever the States say at the moment. Then there would be no grey areas. Hence my plea to lobby on our behalf to have one clear statement for all pilots (as they have done for recreational boating)

[Love to fly]

orry my post was poorly worded. I absolutely agree with you. What would be great is if RAA, SAA, SAFA etc. could give a clear concise message to all their members to say “No” you cannot fly for the following reasons in NSW/QLD, however at the moment you can fly if you reside in SA. Or whatever the States say at the moment. Then there would be no grey areas. Hence my plea to lobby on our behalf to have one clear statement for all pilots (as they have done for recreational boating)

 

Thank you for clarifying. I thought you were asking them to lobby to allow recreational/private flying. A clear statement would be good. But really how hard is it for people to heed the clear request of the Prime Minister and others to stay at home.

[turboplanner]

Sorry my post was poorly worded. I absolutely agree with you. What would be great is if RAA, SAA, SAFA etc. could give a clear concise message to all their members to say “No” you cannot fly for the following reasons in NSW/QLD, however at the moment you can fly if you reside in SA. Or whatever the States say at the moment. Then there would be no grey areas. Hence my plea to lobby on our behalf to have one clear statement for all pilots (as they have done for recreational boating)

Don't worry, my words were intended for a few others, so they understand.

 

The problem with doing what you say, is that the Chief Medical Officers can issue a new Direction at any minute, let alone evry few days. They can act as soon as they have proof of a cluster of infections and what caused them, and I suspect they don't have time to advise the many hundreds of quite big sporting and recreational organisations. A second reason would be that the cosen path to advise us has been through the daily press conferences held by the Permiers and Chief Ministers, where the Chief Health Officers tell us what they are doing.

What Game Management Authority in Victoria did after many sob stories on social media along similar lines we've read here, such as "I drive from home up into the bush without seeing anyone, do my hunting and drive home (and then the tag line about what's aring with that), They issued a text to every hunter in Victoria at the same time telling them there was to be no more hunting until further notice.

[jackc]

I phoned my flying school this afternoon and the new plane is arriving over Easter. They said they would call back after doing some planning, but I can’t cross the border anyway as I don’t have the right ‘papers’

[onetrack]

When did having the right papers ever stop you from doing what you want to do? According to you, rules are made to be constantly broken.

[jackc]

When did having the right papers ever stop you from doing what you want to do? According to you, rules are made to be constantly broken.

 

Since you asked, I COULD forge something and computers make it so easy:-)

[Flying Binghi]

.....

 

What Game Management Authority in Victoria did after many sob stories on social media along similar lines we've read here, such as "I drive from home up into the bush without seeing anyone, do my hunting and drive home (and then the tag line about what's aring with that), They issued a text to every hunter in Victoria at the same time telling them there was to be no more hunting until further notice.

 

High level idiocy...?

 

Another week or so of this and many Australians are just going to do as they please. The kids will just go out and party.

 

What are the little despot Mao’s going to do then ? Throw everybody in jail..?

 

 

 

 

.

[jackc]

High level idiocy...?

 

Another week or so of this and many Australians are just going to do as they please. The kids will just go out and party.

 

What are the little despot Mao’s going to do then ? Throw everybody in jail..?

 

 

 

 

.

Right now there is a party going at the neighbours some 500 metres away big outside fire lotsa music, was gonna phone them and tell ‘em to turn it up:-)

[jackc]

COVID-19 is the disease. The virus is SARS-CoV-2.

Being politically correct only, many past diseases have been referred to by name, being the source.

[turboplanner]

High level idiocy...?

Another week or so of this and many Australians are just going to do as they please. The kids will just go out and party.

What are the little despot Mao’s going to do then ? Throw everybody in jail..?

Firstly the little despot Maos (the plural is not possessive) you are talking about are the members of the AHPPC.

The Australian Health Principal Committee consists of all State and Territory Chief Health Officers

The Committee is chaired by the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Brendan Nelson

Most are Professors, which means they have Peak Knowledge in their profession and probably studied more than ten years to gain their knowledge (as against looking at a few overseas web sites)

 

These people were appointed under the various State of Emergency legislation enacted by the State, Territory and Commonwealth Governments.

The AHPPC is matched by the National Cabinet in Commonwealth and State representation.

 

Under their emergency powers they are effeively running the Country in terms of taking ANY action to protect us from catching, spreading or dying from the virus.

 

So far their efforts have paid off for Australians, and it looks like we will go nowhere near the original 50,000 to 150,000 deaths predicted by the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Paul Kelly.

 

That's actually a good thing rather than High idiocy.

 

The short answer to the last line is yes. State Premiers have given very strong warnings about leaving home over this Easter. If they are ignored and the AHPPC sees the potential for the spread of the disease don't be at all suprised if the States, Territories and Commonwealth Governments don't call a State of Disaster which unleashes much more draconian powers to isolate people to stop the spread of the virus.

 

Remember, the end game of this virus for people with low immune systems or respiratory issues is that they will die as a percentage of the spread.

[jackc]

Firstly the little despot Maos (the plural is not possessive) you are talking about are the members of the AHPPC.

The Australian Health Principal Committee consists of all State and Territory Chief Health Officers

The Committee is chaired by the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Brendan Nelson

Most are Professors, which means they have Peak Knowledge in their profession and probably studied more than ten years to gain their knowledge (as against looking at a few overseas web sites)

 

These people were appointed under the various State of Emergency legislation enacted by the State, Territory and Commonwealth Governments.

The AHPPC is matched by the National Cabinet in Commonwealth and State representation.

 

Under their emergency powers they are effeively running the Country in terms of taking ANY action to protect us from catching, spreading or dying from the virus.

 

So far their efforts have paid off for Australians, and it looks like we will go nowhere near the original 50,000 to 150,000 deaths predicted by the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Paul Kelly.

 

That's actually a good thing rather than High idiocy.

 

The short answer to the last line is yes. State Premiers have given very strong warnings about leaving home over this Easter. If they are ignored and the AHPPC sees the potential for the spread of the disease don't be at all suprised if the States, Territories and Commonwealth Governments don't call a State of Disaster which unleashes much more draconian powers to isolate people to stop the spread of the virus.

 

Remember, the end game of this virus for people with low immune systems or respiratory issues is that they will die as a percentage of the spread.

 

I think everyone in Australia understands this, however when they see prominent people in Govts and in places of medical knowledge make mistakes, then some of the population simply say ‘look at these idiots, they could not run a lemonade stand at a primary school fete’. Why should should ‘I’ cop it up MY rear most facing orifice?

Sure, we can all see mistakes have been made, And I won’t throw people under the bus over it, but you can see why some people are majorly pissed off, it’s human nature:-) Rebellion is their method of getting personal satisfaction, not to mention the fun of some illegality in the process.

Sure I know what this virus is about, I have studied Internal medicine for years and subscribe to one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world, I am my GPs personal ‘researcher’. Not that I feel great bragging about this on an Aviation forum where I have come to gain knowledge about planes of which I know very little, but have learnt heaps since I come here.

You may all think I am serious in some of my posts, but my whole life is a stack of fun ‘taking the piss’ And adding a little sprinkling of reality:-). Being 70 next year and having survived a good dose of the flesh termites amongst some other horrible medical events, flying is one of my last bucket list item to cross off. If I died tomorrow, I would still not have felt cheated in this life, even though I failed to cross flying off. So, keep getting a laugh out of life and make the most of it.....there is no coming back for ‘seconds’

Have a great Easter:-)

[Flying Binghi]

Firstly the little despot Maos (the plural is not possessive) you are talking about are the members of the AHPPC.

The Australian Health Principal Committee consists of all State and Territory Chief Health Officers

The Committee is chaired by the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Brendan Nelson

Most are Professors, which means they have Peak Knowledge in their profession and probably studied more than ten years to gain their knowledge (as against looking at a few overseas web sites)

 

These people were appointed under the various State of Emergency legislation enacted by the State, Territory and Commonwealth Governments.

The AHPPC is matched by the National Cabinet in Commonwealth and State representation.

 

Under their emergency powers they are effeively running the Country in terms of taking ANY action to protect us from catching, spreading or dying from the virus.

 

So far their efforts have paid off for Australians, and it looks like we will go nowhere near the original 50,000 to 150,000 deaths predicted by the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Professor Paul Kelly.

 

That's actually a good thing rather than High idiocy.

 

The short answer to the last line is yes. State Premiers have given very strong warnings about leaving home over this Easter. If they are ignored and the AHPPC sees the potential for the spread of the disease don't be at all suprised if the States, Territories and Commonwealth Governments don't call a State of Disaster which unleashes much more draconian powers to isolate people to stop the spread of the virus.

 

Remember, the end game of this virus for people with low immune systems or respiratory issues is that they will die as a percentage of the spread.

 

If all yer gots is a hammer then all you see is nails.

 

We know the demographics of over 95% of the ChiCom fatals.

 

As I’ve mentioned from the get-go. Isolate yer-self if yer over 65 or have the identified health issues of concern - or are just worried.

 

The rest of us get back to it...?

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Jerry_Atrick]

If all yer gots is a hammer then all you see is nails.

 

I have no effin idea what you are talking about... But keep 'em coming.. the banter is most amusing...

 

 

We know the demographics of over 95% of the ChiCom fatals.

OK - so let's go to herd immunity.. 95% of the COVID-19 fatals are whatever you think they are - lets say over 65s.. That leaves 5% of the fatality rate for the under 65's

 

Let's humour you and assume all Aussies are under 65 - and I will round down the Aussie population to 24m... And lets round down the infection rate if left unchecked (remember, we are assuming all are under 65) to 50% of the population.,. That's 24m / 2 = 12m and 5% fatality rate (your figures) = 600,000 deaths - are you really happy with that? Oh, and of course, it would happen over a relatively short period, and what you neglect to mention is the percentage that requires hospitalistion and intensive care - of which such a rapid spread would cause many to miss out on as the resources are not there - further increasing the death rate.. which will be more than 5% and also because, of course, Australia has over 65s and the mortaility rate for those is much higher.

 

As I’ve mentioned from the get-go. Isolate yer-self if yer over 65 or have the identified health issues of concern - or are just worried.

 

Tell that to Boris, who is a reasonably fit 55 year old..

 

The rest of us get back to it...?

I volunteer you to be our guinea pig and get yourself infected and tell us how it turns out.. I would be most curious...

[Flying Binghi]

I have no effin idea what you are talking about... But keep 'em coming.. the banter is most amusing...

 

 

 

OK - so let's go to herd immunity.. 95% of the COVID-19 fatals are whatever you think they are - lets say over 65s.. That leaves 5% of the fatality rate for the under 65's

 

Let's humour you and assume all Aussies are under 65 - and I will round down the Aussie population to 24m... And lets round down the infection rate if left unchecked (remember, we are assuming all are under 65) to 50% of the population.,. That's 24m / 2 = 12m and 5% fatality rate (your figures) = 600,000 deaths - are you really happy with that? Oh, and of course, it would happen over a relatively short period, and what you neglect to mention is the percentage that requires hospitalistion and intensive care - of which such a rapid spread would cause many to miss out on as the resources are not there - further increasing the death rate.. which will be more than 5% and also because, of course, Australia has over 65s and the mortaility rate for those is much higher.

 

 

 

Tell that to Boris, who is a reasonably fit 55 year old..

 

 

I volunteer you to be our guinea pig and get yourself infected and tell us how it turns out.. I would be most curious...

 

Meanwhile, over in Sweden...?

 

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

.

[onetrack]

We know the demographics of over 95% of the ChiCom fatals.

This constant harping on about "the ChiCom" virus, is copied straight out of Rush Limbaughs constant "anti-Commie" diatribes.

 

The line that it a "Communist virus", designed to weaken the West, has no basis in fact - and the "ChiCom" terminology is Vietnam War, U.S. military terminology.

 

Every article of weaponry, armaments, explosives or booby trap design was "ChiCom" origin when the U.S. Military were describing enemy materials.

 

Rush Limbaugh still lives in the Vietnam War era of the late 1960's, and still spews "anti-Commie" diatribe on a daily basis - because he can't accept this is the 21st century, and the world order has changed, and his beloved country has lost every war it has fought since Vietnam.

 

What I find amusing is that America now deals with Vietnam on a major commercial basis every day, without any reference to "Commies". I'll wager Rush probably wear sneakers made in Vietnam by an American corporation.

 

If the virus had originated in the Mekong Delta, would Rush and FB be referring to it as the Viet Cong virus, or the Commie Cong virus?

 

What I find amusing is the Americans have only now just realised, that in the mad American Corporation rush for fat profits, by transferring three quarters of their manufacturing to Asian nations, they have become totally dependent on "the Commies" to supply most of their medical needs and other vital supplies.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/rush-limbaugh-economy-coronavirus_n_5e845a88c5b6a1bb76504f78?ri18n=true&guccounter=1

[Thruster88]

I thought there was a warning to that person a couple of days ago, what is going on?

[Flying Binghi]

 

...

 

 

What I find amusing is the Americans have only now just realised, that in the mad American Corporation rush for fat profits, by transferring three quarters of their manufacturing to Asian nations, they have become totally dependent on "the Commies" to supply most of their medical needs and other vital supplies.

 

 

Well, that were quiet the gallop around the paddock..?

 

Now that yer back at the yards we’ll look at the interesting bit..?

 

 

I collect old lathes amongst other things. Main focus is Australian built lathes.

 

It could be argued that Lathes are a foundation tool of all manufacturing. (Today it is CNC lathes)

 

Surprisingly we used to have many different factory’s in this country that built lathes for...... our general manufacturing industry..?

 

There were even three different lathe manufacturers in Brisbane!!! Big country town Brisbane used to have that sort of industry..?

 

Trouble were, people didn’t want to buy Oz made - they wanted that cheaper import.

 

When the customers dont buy yer product then you need to find ways to cut costs.....

 

And so it goes.

 

So who’s to blame.

 

The executive for farming out their company’s manufacturing to cheaper suppliers or the customer that buys on price, their own country be damned ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[kgwilson]

When someone gets all their information from factually discredited Alt-Right (eg Brietbart) and ultra conservative (eg Ben Shapiro) US sources and maintains this as it agrees with that persons views there will be a continued trail of drivel which is why I have now have an ignore list.

[Flying Binghi]

...?

 

“...Professor of Medicine, of Health Research and Policy and of Biomedical Data Science, at Stanford University School of Medicine and a Professor of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. He is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Center, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS).

 

He is also the editor-in-chief of the European Journal of Clinical Investigation. He was chairman at the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine as well as adjunct professor at Tufts University School of Medicine.

 

As a physician, scientist and author he has made contributions to evidence-based medicine, epidemiology, data science and clinical research. In addition, he pioneered the field of meta-research. He has shown that much of the published research does not meet good scientific standards of evidence.

 

What he says:

 

Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes. As most health systems have limited testing capacity, selection bias may even worsen in the near future.

The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.

[…]

Could the Covid-19 case fatality rate be that low? No, some say, pointing to the high rate in elderly people. However, even some so-called mild or common-cold-type coronaviruses that have been known for decades can have case fatality rates as high as 8% when they infect elderly people in nursing homes.

[…]

If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average.

 

– “A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data”, Stat News, 17th March 2020...”

 

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/

 

 

 

 

 

.

[jackc]

Well, that were quiet the gallop around the paddock..?

 

Now that yer back at the yards we’ll look at the interesting bit..?

 

 

I collect old lathes amongst other things. Main focus is Australian built lathes.

 

It could be argued that Lathes are a foundation tool of all manufacturing. (Today it is CNC lathes)

 

Surprisingly we used to have many different factory’s in this country that built lathes for...... our general manufacturing industry..?

 

There were even three different lathe manufacturers in Brisbane!!! Big country town Brisbane used to have that sort of industry..?

 

Trouble were, people didn’t want to buy Oz made - they wanted that cheaper import.

 

When the customers dont buy yer product then you need to find ways to cut costs.....

 

And so it goes.

 

So who’s to blame.

 

The executive for farming out their company’s manufacturing to cheaper suppliers or the customer that buys on price, their own country be damned ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

[jackc]

Back in the 60s we had Macson, Nutall and Ward lathes in our workshop.

[Flying Binghi]

Back in the 60s we had Macson, Nutall and Ward lathes in our workshop.

 

http://www.lathes.co.uk/australian/

 

Some of the info is not correct and not all manufacturers are listed though gives an idea of what we once had..?

 

 

 

 

.