The question of the future of flying?????

[turboplanner]

So why is the guy with BFR due after 30/3 safe to keep flying for 3 months and those not renewed before then now grounded indefinitely

Currency is key so by that rationale not flying regularly raises the risk

Same health officials say its Ok to sit in full Saab for 2 hrs.

Not sure anyone has said cant perform flight training if essential, have they?

Essential is Commercial Aviation.

[SplitS]

Essential is Commercial Aviation.

No there are plenty of none commercial uses that are business related that are not "commercial". Get a Mate to "hire" you to take a photo of their property don't need no "commercial" license to do that.

[turboplanner]

No there are plenty of none commercial uses that are business related that are not "commercial". Get a Mate to "hire" you to take a photo of their property don't need no "commercial" license to do that.

If that was the agreement I'd suggest you do need a commercial licence, but we don't have to worry about looking for the loopholes because everything you can possibly think of has been tried and the CASA regulation these days is very specific.

[Jabiru7252]

Really how useful is a BFR with pilots flying every week. Its the guys that fly one a month ish the need them in my humble opinion.

 

Whether you fly every week or once a month a BFR is still a good thing. Some pilots develop bad habits even when they are regular flyers and anyway, it's good to have somebody nit-pick your flying. I started going back to my PA28 ways with flat approaches under power. My instructor pointed that out to me. Also, I was putting the flaps away too soon, another thing I wasn't aware of. None of us are perfect flyers.

[mnewbery]

Tonight...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-18/virgin-offered-$200m-coronavirus-lifeline-from-qld-government/12160946

 

..with some very interesting strings attached.

[mnewbery]

[duplicate post]

[jetjr]

Essential is Commercial Aviation.

Says who?

[kgwilson]

Virgin is owned 10% by Richard Branson & 80% by Singapore Airlines, Etihad, Nanahan & HNA of China all of which are not prepared to put any money into it. Virgin was on the verge of bankruptcy before the Pandemic hit so why would they? They are asking for a $1.5 Billion loan but what security is there in this. The only security would have to be a shareholding & based on Virgins NPV that would make it an Australian Government owned airline. The whole issue is about competition and Australian jobs.

 

Qantas has made sure that the competition is already stuffed so why wouldn't they continue this to increase their market share to virtually 100%. Virgin will eventually go broke and the government will be $1.5 Billion out of pocket & all the staff will lose their jobs so there is no way a loan is going to happen.

 

The share of the $165 million injection buys them a few weeks at best. The $200 million QLD offer is another few weeks but is money down the drain & the Feds won't add any more so it won't happen anyway.

 

The airline industry will be decimated at the end of this pandemic and only major carriers will survive. The fantasy of having 2 airlines to maintain competition is thinking inside the square and not in the post pandemic world. The reality is that there will be a huge number of airline industry permanent redundancies which will mean major career shifts for thousands of people.

 

Cheap airfares will be confined to history. I don't want any of this to happen but I believe it is the most realistic scenario going forward.

[turboplanner]

The loss of Virgin would be a lot smaller bow than the loss of Ansett. There will be others ready to step in for a share of the market.

[mikeavison]

Well in UK we are also not supposed to fly recreationally. I think quite unfair. I never feel so alone as when flying solo especially when things aren't going quite right! Just me, the controls, the instruments, the weather above and the ground below. Lets face it I am at least 1000ft from the nearest other human well more than 2m!

 

Some say, ah but what if you crash , putting additional strain on the health resources. Be honest there are a few crashes per year and most do not require emergency services. Hardly a strain!

 

Mike (pommie)

[derekliston]

Well in UK we are also not supposed to fly recreationally. I think quite unfair. I never feel so alone as when flying solo especially when things aren't going quite right! Just me, the controls, the instruments, the weather above and the ground below. Lets face it I am at least 1000ft from the nearest other human well more than 2m!

 

Some say, ah but what if you crash , putting additional strain on the health resources. Be honest there are a few crashes per year and most do not require emergency services. Hardly a strain!

 

Mike (pommie)

See if I can give some sort of cogent response which will probably get me shot down from all directions. However, over the years flying has cost me a lot of money, not only with the original outlay to obtain a licence, but ongoing costs of maintaining that licence, annual medical, biennial flight review etc. Being fortunate enough to own my own aeroplane which I built, I also have ongoing hangarage, insurance and maintenance costs. As is usual with knee jerk reactions, which a lot of these are, some of the directions are as clear as mud, AOPA Australia are trying to get a definitive answer, which I am not sure I want because the answer may be no, but meantime we are left with ‘Essential’ and what we consider essential. I would personally argue that maintaining currency and keeping ones engine in good operational order meets that definition. For the previous several weeks I was unable to fly due to having shingles on my face and hence dosing up on painkillers. The nett result of that being that for those weeks I have been totally socially isolated and would be more likely to catch the virus from police or emergency responders than to pass it on to them. Anyway, having now recovered, I gave it some thought and decided on Friday past to give it a go. Now, I live in a country town just about 10km from the airfield. I left home, drove to the airfield, flew some solo (socially isolated circuits!!!) and drove home again without encountering one person! I did however, on my last final approach, notice a gang of men laying an asphalt frontage to one hangar, apparently legitimately, social distancing???? I think that if I can do that once a week, it should be acceptable, I know that people’s circumstances vary, but surely it should not be a ‘one size fits all’ situation.

[Possum1]

Now, I live in a country town just about 10km from the airfield. I left home, drove to the airfield, flew some solo (socially isolated circuits!!!) and drove home again without encountering one person! I did however, on my last final approach, notice a gang of men laying an asphalt frontage to one hangar, apparently legitimately, social distancing???? I think that if I can do that once a week, it should be acceptable, I know that people’s circumstances vary, but surely it should not be a ‘one size fits all’ situation.

 

As a result of over-zealous policing on the Easter Weekend, which resulted in many(but not all fines) being cancelled, the police have been made to actually read and follow the Health Department Directions instead of arbitrarily deciding themselves what was essential or not.

 

The Health Department Directions do not require your activitiy to be essential; they just require it to fit into one of the items on their list of Permitted Purposes.

 

There has been a considerable lightening up since Easter and the Police Commissioner has become positively conciliatory - see Courier-Mail 18 April, 2020.

 

In Queensland, you are covered by the "Home Confinement, Movement and Gathering Direction" (effective April 2), from Chief Health Officer, Dr Jeanette Young. Your circuits - maintaining currency and keeping ones engine in good operational order - would be covered under Permitted Purpose "(d) to perform work . . . and the work . . . to be performed is of a nature that cannot reasonably be performed from the person’s principal place of residence." The work does not have to be essential. It just has to be work-related i.e. not recreational.

 

If what you want to do will fit into any of the items on the Permitted Purposes list, then go ahead and leave your "Principal Place of Residence" and go and do it.

 

The word " essential" only refers to "essential business" meaning a business, activity or undertaking that is not on the prohibited list in the Non-essential business, activity and undertaking Closure Direction, and this has nothing to do with what you are doing.

[zodiacpilot]

Whilst I like to stretch the bow a little myself somehow me thinks that a Nazi cop will throw the book at you! ? Victoria really is a communist state!

Driving to airfield for instuction is legal (education). Instructor & student in aircraft is legal (workplace), distancing in workplace is (recommended) not mandatory.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Well in UK we are also not supposed to fly recreationally. I think quite unfair. I never feel so alone as when flying solo especially when things aren't going quite right! Just me, the controls, the instruments, the weather above and the ground below. Lets face it I am at least 1000ft from the nearest other human well more than 2m!

 

Some say, ah but what if you crash , putting additional strain on the health resources. Be honest there are a few crashes per year and most do not require emergency services. Hardly a strain!

 

Mike (pommie)

 

G'Day, Mike.

 

VFR flight is not yet banned in the UK (AFAIK), and up to about 2 weeks after the lock down I would see the odd VFR flight (usualy a C150/152 arounf here) Most of the GA airfields are closed to all but emergency services (I fly from both Blackbushe and Dunkeswell). Last week onf FR24 I saw someone flying from near Chilterns to near Membury on FR24 - I am guessing both were private strips.

 

The lockdown allows one to travel only for the permitted reasons - work, exercise (once per day), necessities (food, etc) and medical reasons for self or assisting others (e.g. picking up medicines for elderly neighours). The UK is a small piece of land and GA, expecially in the SE and parts of the SW leave a big footrprint. There is already considerable opposition to GA (lately being led by Jeremy Clarkson - it seems) in the UK and this is borne out by the number of crazy noise abatement procedures because a dairy yard (not the house) is under a flight path where the ac would be min 1000' overhead and other such nonsense. Although, in the flying press, councils are portrayed as wanting to keep the airfields, look at both Fairoaks and Wellesbourne Mountford - when the poop hit the fan, the councils reneged and it was the aviation community who had to step up to stave off closure.. in the latter's case, I think the inevtiable - like Old Sarum - is just being delayed; Fairoaks is safer because none of the residents want the new "garden community" that was to replace the airfield.

 

Yes - it is unfair - but we are in this together.. Golfers could easily meet social distancing rules - and England Golf took the decision, despite being an exercise, to close all courses. It is regrettable and unfair, but, if anything else, it shows unity... People are complying with the spirit of the lock down and for us to be finding ways to get out of it will hurt us more than help. Also, if we start looking at all the exceptions rather than a blanket rule, it becomes impossible to police - and the UK police are beign nowhere near as zealous of the stories espoused on here. And, while flying is allowed, the journey to the airfield is probably not.. except for the below..

 

Running up the engines to ward off corrosion? Not necessary (I know I am going to get a kicking for saying this). If you are going to go to the airfield or you are lucky enough to have access to a private strip, go there for essental work - inhibiting your engine and protecting your airframe. No need for the once a week excuse to defy the order. Just think - we choose to take this pastime - we don't need to (in the sense of survival). Lose that £20K engine - pay a LAME to inhibit it for a lot less - compare that to people whose businesses were needed for survival and will lose everything and usually a lot more than £20K... Playing a bit of devils advocate as well, but sometimes we have to think outside the Lo Presti box.

 

edit: Not meaning to come across as self-righteous.. I am more frustrated than most as the shareoplane came back 5 months late on the Monday of the week the lockdown was announced. But, these are not normal times.. when the curve is flattened, then we should look at it again..

Edited April 19, 2020 by Jerry_Atrick

[joew49]

Rex owner Lim Kim Hai is worth billions so I am guessing he already said "Yeah, nah. No money from me now off you go".

If that is correct, our government could say to Lim Kim Hai, that we buy Rex off him for an advantageous price. Then the Government would have all of the routes that were bugbears for the large airlines, (the regional routes). It could service them at a loss, getting levies from the states per pax carried? It could also do East West (Sunstate) and also use Rex on money for jam routes to keep any major airline honest!

(Only my 2 cents worth)

[derekliston]

G'Day, Mike.

 

VFR flight is not yet banned in the UK (AFAIK), and up to about 2 weeks after the lock down I would see the odd VFR flight (usualy a C150/152 arounf here) Most of the GA airfields are closed to all but emergency services (I fly from both Blackbushe and Dunkeswell). Last week onf FR24 I saw someone flying from near Chilterns to near Membury on FR24 - I am guessing both were private strips.

 

The lockdown allows one to travel only for the permitted reasons - work, exercise (once per day), necessities (food, etc) and medical reasons for self or assisting others (e.g. picking up medicines for elderly neighours). The UK is a small piece of land and GA, expecially in the SE and parts of the SW leave a big footrprint. There is already considerable opposition to GA (lately being led by Jeremy Clarkson - it seems) in the UK and this is borne out by the number of crazy noise abatement procedures because a dairy yard (not the house) is under a flight path where the ac would be min 1000' overhead and other such nonsense. Although, in the flying press, councils are portrayed as wanting to keep the airfields, look at both Fairoaks and Wellesbourne Mountford - when the poop hit the fan, the councils reneged and it was the aviation community who had to step up to stave off closure.. in the latter's case, I think the inevtiable - like Old Sarum - is just being delayed; Fairoaks is safer because none of the residents want the new "garden community" that was to replace the airfield.

 

Yes - it is unfair - but we are in this together.. Golfers could easily meet social distancing rules - and England Golf took the decision, despite being an exercise, to close all courses. It is regrettable and unfair, but, if anything else, it shows unity... People are complying with the spirit of the lock down and for us to be finding ways to get out of it will hurt us more than help. Also, if we start looking at all the exceptions rather than a blanket rule, it becomes impossible to police - and the UK police are beign nowhere near as zealous of the stories espoused on here. And, while flying is allowed, the journey to the airfield is probably not.. except for the below..

 

Running up the engines to ward off corrosion? Not necessary (I know I am going to get a kicking for saying this). If you are going to go to the airfield or you are lucky enough to have access to a private strip, go there for essental work - inhibiting your engine and protecting your airframe. No need for the once a week excuse to defy the order. Just think - we choose to take this pastime - we don't need to (in the sense of survival). Lose that £20K engine - pay a LAME to inhibit it for a lot less - compare that to people whose businesses were needed for survival and will lose everything and usually a lot more than £20K... Playing a bit of devils advocate as well, but sometimes we have to think outside the Lo Presti box.

 

edit: Not meaning to come across as self-righteous.. I am more frustrated than most as the shareoplane came back 5 months late on the Monday of the week the lockdown was announced. But, these are not normal times.. when the curve is flattened, then we should look at it again..

Totally unrelated but if you fly from Dunkeswell there is a chance you know a mate of mine, Phil Pierce (Phil the Fish on Facebook)

[turboplanner]

Driving to airfield for instuction is legal (education). Instructor & student in aircraft is legal (workplace), distancing in workplace is (recommended) not mandatory.

Out on the first leg; driving instruction is not legal in Victoria, clarified a couple of weeks ago.

[Flightrite]

Crazy as not all states are as backward as communist Vic.,

[Jerry_Atrick]

Totally unrelated but if you fly from Dunkeswell there is a chance you know a mate of mine, Phil Pierce (Phil the Fish on Facebook)

Unf, not... Despite being closer, I only rent when I need to from Dunks as the Shareoplane is based in Blackbushe.. So, for me, it is into the flight school (there is no club in the real sense there), book out, fly, book in, pay and go..

 

Shame, as the airspace around here is so much more open than SE London.

 

But, I know where he is now - so I will look him up!

[turboplanner]

Crazy as not all states are as backward as communist Vic.,

The instructions are coming from medical professionals.

[Student Pilot]

Crazy as not all states are as backward as communist Vic.,

Perhaps you would rather move to the US where if you get sick and don't have any health insurance then you die, if you get cancer, you sell your house if you have one or you die,

free enterprise at it's finest.

[facthunter]

Keep house prices DOWN. The market knows best.. The more that die in a town the cheaper the bargains get. Like unemployment or a big recession. Gets the money back into the hands of those who know how to make the most out of having it when you don't. They way god meant it to be, according to some.. Nev

[Butch]

Keep house prices DOWN. The market knows best.. The more that die in a town the cheaper the bargains get. Like unemployment or a big recession. Gets the money back into the hands of those who know how to make the most out of having it when you don't. They way god meant it to be, according to some.. Nev

My Grandfather (who lived through the depression) favorite saying was " the harder I work , the luckier I get"

 

Maybe if people didn't live from pay check to pay check instead of putting some money away, they would be the ones that benefit from hard times!

 

This was going to happen anyway, people over commit ,new car ,four bedroom house and overseas holidays. Most on borrowed money.

 

Covit 19 is the straw that broke the Camels back.

 

It could be worse , history shows it is usually a War that sorts things out.

[jackc]

The instructions are coming from medical professionals.

Who are under influence of politicians?

[turboplanner]

Who are under influence of politicians?

No, not under the influence of the politicians.

The State of Emergengy declarations by each State, Territory and the Commonwealth which were made in January/February trigger special powers to the State/Territory Chief Health Officers and the Chief medical Officer, and they have been directing what has to be done to minimise casualties and bring the State of Emergency to an end. The Prime Minister and Premiers must have metioned this several hundred times since.