Respect. Australian Soldiers.

[Phil Perry]

Exhausted stretcher bearers from the 3rd Australian Division rest in the mud and drizzle of Broodseinde Ridge, during the Third Battle of Ypres (Passchendaele), 11th October 1917. Remember these men with Pride.

 

[Yenn]

Remember all Aussie soldiers with pride. Remember those sent to fight in Afghanistan and other countries where we waged war recently. They have a different war to fight. Their enemy is dressed as a civilian and they cannot engage with him, until he shows he has a weapon. Trounle is they can produce the weapon in an instant, fire and instantly become a civilian again. A veteran on Maccas program this morning suggested we all contact our federal member and say we want a Royal Commisssion into veterans health, because of the number of suicides. What we need is to get our pollies to stop sending our troops to fight that type of war, especially when it is of no benefit to Australia.

[Geoff13]

Fact:- We have lost more Afganistan Vets to suicide since they came home than we lost during the whole conflict.

[onetrack]

I have a copy of Vol. XII of "The Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-1918" - the Official Photographic Record of the War.

 

The book contains 753 photographic images of WW1 by official photographers, such as Hurley, Wilkins, Campbell, Baldwin and others, and those images are the most enduring images I have ever viewed.

 

The photos of the wastelands of the Battlefields of France are simply staggering, and one can only marvel how men actually lived, fought, and survived under those conditions.

 

Of course, we know now, that 62,000 Australians didn't survive, another 156,000 were wounded, gassed or captured - and uncountable tens of thousands of Aussies came home seriously pyschologically maimed.

 

War is Hell, and nothing represents that Hell, as well as the images of WW1 fighting and destruction, do. Here are just a handful of those horrifying battlefield images.

 

https://www.awm.gov.au/advanced-search?query=St%20Yves%20&collection=true&facet_type=Photograph&facet_related_conflict_sort=8%3AFirst%20World%20War%2C%201914-1918

[old man emu]

I wonder if our politicians give a thought to those who have returned injured mentally or physically when they piously intone

"They shall not grow old

As we who are left grow old.

Age shall not weary them,

Nor the years condemn."

 

Politicians are full of patriotic fervor when they are urging the population to take up arms, but are noticeably silent when the broken members of the population are carried home to bear the slings and arrows of outrageous Fortune for the rest of their shortened lives.

 

There are no more WWl survivors, fewer WWll survivors, lots of Korean and Vietnam vets, and now our Iraq and Afghanistan returned service people. And still the uncaring Government makes these often willing volunteers jump though hoops in attempts to get the rehabilitation services they need. "A place fit for heroes"? Not bloody likely.

 

Next time our gungho politicians decide that they are going to send members of the population overseas to fight other peoples' battles, we should flood their email and letter boxes with pictures of a military rifle with the message, "I'm right behind you as soon as you pick up your gun to lead the charge!"

[Thruster88]

I am hopeful that Australia will not be involved in anymore US led senseless war. It would be nice to think we will have a PM with the balls to tell the potus to go away. I am ready for my first protest if it is required.

[Jerry_Atrick]

It was the same in the UK.. The problem is, in reality, there are so few votes in it. But there are two things that help here: A charity, Help for Heroes, has done a stirling job promoting the issue and now there are votes in it. Also, the royals are required to serve in the military and the red-head, although a bit of a scattergun himself, saw active service, demanded no special treatment (i.e. not given a cermonial post) and actively supported various charities that supported returned servicemen as well as being a leading figure in setting up the Invictus games.. the press that brought was huge. We are still miles off where we need to be, but it's a start.

 

The cost of supporting our returned servicepeople is tiny compared to the cost of going to war.. I can never understand why we don't do something about it.

[Old Koreelah]

...The cost of supporting our returned servicepeople is tiny compared to the cost of going to war.. I can never understand why we don't do something about it.

We haven't come very far from the days when crippled war veterans were beggars in the street.

We should insist that war-mongering politicians and shock-jocks are first into battle. Unfortunately, pretty much the opposite applies, especially in the country which has had the most wars: USA.

[Student Pilot]

Old "Bone Spur's" can't wait to order Americans into another war, if his numbers drop a lot he will want to deflect attention away from his bad management. South China sea and anywhere in the middle East are areas he'd flagged.

The US aren't the only ones who treat veterans badly with a big percentage on the streets, Australia is a known abuser of Vets. Look at the nuclear test debacles, Vietnam Vet treatment, the de-seal and seal crews that did the F111 fuel tanks and the current major PFAS contamination problems throughout Australia. Australian military and it's penny pinching funds provider are negligent in their duty of care.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I like your ideas OME. I wish they had done that in every war... follow the pollies and not just obey them.

If they want you to attack, they should be in the lead.

I think the french finally did this in 1918. It was one of the things that led the poms to finally agree to ending the war.

[eightyknots]

I wonder if our politicians give a thought to those who have returned injured mentally or physically when they piously intone

"They shall not grow old

As we who are left grow old.

Age shall not weary them,

Nor the years condemn."

 

Politicians are full of patriotic fervor when they are urging the population to take up arms, but are noticeably silent when the broken members of the population are carried home to bear the slings and arrows of outrageous Fortune for the rest of their shortened lives.

 

There are no more WWl survivors, fewer WWll survivors, lots of Korean and Vietnam vets, and now our Iraq and Afghanistan returned service people. And still the uncaring Government makes these often willing volunteers jump though hoops in attempts to get the rehabilitation services they need. "A place fit for heroes"? Not bloody likely.

 

Next time our gungho politicians decide that they are going to send members of the population overseas to fight other peoples' battles, we should flood their email and letter boxes with pictures of a military rifle with the message, "I'm right behind you as soon as you pick up your gun to lead the charge!"

 

The difference is that, from ancient times until the 1600s the monarch ruling the nation led the charge: this was a universal rule. Nowadays, leaders of nations (and politicians) are many kilometres from the conflict and have a very limited realisation what is really happening at the front.

 

This fact explains the often shabby treatment of returned veterans.

[Yenn]

Not only are the leaders of nations way behind the lines, it is now official policy that they cannot be targeted. Killing the nations leader is murder and cannot be done legally. It is perfectly legal to kill every one of that leaders supposed soldiers.

What I don't like is that our military are fighting wars where they cannot attack the enemy, because the enemy hides behind civilian rules.

[Old Koreelah]

Old "Bone Spur's" can't wait to order Americans into another war, if his numbers drop a lot he will want to deflect attention away from his bad management...

 

But wait there's more! (More to worry about, that is.)

The fat young prince running North Korea doesn't look like he'll live much longer. His sister is widely touted as heir, but will have difficulty being recognised as leader in that patrilineal society.

To win over the military she will have to become DRK's Iron Lady.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Old Koreelah

[Litespeed]

We do not have a monopoly on wrecking the lives of our serving men and women, but sure are world class in destroying them when they come home. Yes, the leaders and generals are isolated and that is a problem but it excuses their shear psychopathic war lust for death. As long as they can get kill numbers on the board, the damage is discarded as collateral damage, even whole countries.

 

Instead of care and support we spend 500 million on tart at the War memorial and grab sponsor dollars from the merchants of death. Glorify war and the "might is right" and bugger the results. Entire populations have suffered for a generation of war and we call that a "win". You can't destroy a country, its public services, health , water, power and education and call that a win for freedom.

 

Today Australia was number 13 in the world on military spending for 2019. Thats weapons and systems we may never see or even be usable. And probably the lowest spending on care for soldiers in the west. And you can bet every dollar they claim they spend, 99 cents goes on paper pushing and 1 cent on making the soldier feel ashamed.

 

Next time we go to war- give the pollies a club each and send them out back, the winner gets life in solitary.

 

That assumes we actually know we are at war somewhere, but these days it is all secret bullshite and "operational matters".

 

We regularly go bomb, shoot and destroy in step with the collation of the killing and never tell the public it even happened. Kill a hundred in a hospital by "mistake" and we blame the dead.

 

My last march was 2008, at the memorial- seeing my son march- never again- just a big pageant calling the young to death and the pollies and arms maker guests seeing dollar signs and power.

 

Next time you see a politician who is pro war or pro spreading the freedom to die by western weapons - they are not your servant. They are mass murderers and war criminals, treat them as such.

 

The Coalition of Killing- Carpet bombing will continue until peace breaks out.

[eightyknots]

We do not have a monopoly on wrecking the lives of our serving men and women, but sure are world class in destroying them when they come home. Yes, the leaders and generals are isolated and that is a problem but it excuses their shear psychopathic war lust for death. As long as they can get kill numbers on the board, the damage is discarded as collateral damage, even whole countries.

 

Instead of care and support we spend 500 million on tart at the War memorial and grab sponsor dollars from the merchants of death. Glorify war and the "might is right" and bugger the results. Entire populations have suffered for a generation of war and we call that a "win". You can't destroy a country, its public services, health , water, power and education and call that a win for freedom.

 

Today Australia was number 13 in the world on military spending for 2019. Thats weapons and systems we may never see or even be usable. And probably the lowest spending on care for soldiers in the west. And you can bet every dollar they claim they spend, 99 cents goes on paper pushing and 1 cent on making the soldier feel ashamed.

 

Next time we go to war- give the pollies a club each and send them out back, the winner gets life in solitary.

 

That assumes we actually know we are at war somewhere, but these days it is all secret bullshite and "operational matters".

 

We regularly go bomb, shoot and destroy in step with the collation of the killing and never tell the public it even happened. Kill a hundred in a hospital by "mistake" and we blame the dead.

 

My last march was 2008, at the memorial- seeing my son march- never again- just a big pageant calling the young to death and the pollies and arms maker guests seeing dollar signs and power.

 

Next time you see a politician who is pro war or pro spreading the freedom to die by western weapons - they are not your servant. They are mass murderers and war criminals, treat them as such.

 

The Coalition of Killing- Carpet bombing will continue until peace breaks out.

 

The words "collateral damage" cover a multitude of deaths.

[kgwilson]

I went to see the film "1917" when you could still go to the movies. It brought all those awful monochome photos of the western front in WW1 to life. I was stunned & could hardly speak when I left the cinema. Power & greed drives politicians & they don't give a rats how they get there or stay there. They created a structure that allowed one bloke to blow a whistle and send thousands to their death & those who survived just had to forget & get on with it. Many couldn't and didn't. The worst enemy is within as most who now return have found as they search for help that isn't forthcoming.

[John Robert]

I have a daughter & that has made me very protective of young females. I was in a war museum in Ho Chi Minh City & came across (amongst other unbelievable brutality details by US forces) photographs of the 10 year old girl that was found hiding in a storm drain & bayoneted to death. For Vietnamese the rape of pre pubescent girls by US forces was a common occurrence. So mothers hid their young children. I had tears of sadness & shame when I left the museum.

The Commander on that day was a Bob Kerry. He was eventually charged & proven guilty. He was never convicted or paid any penalty . The US courts have said that in war every person can be considered a combatant. The US has caused more death & misery than any nation in history. They have done this to protect their flawed democratic system. The best example of that & that nations stupidity is their response to covid19.

They brag that their spies in the CIA knew of problems in a lab near Wuhan. That being the case they had more warning than any other country in the world. So why are they trying to shift the blame to the Chinese for their own inability to react to the crisis.

Last week I saw Vice President Pence visiting a hospital & bragging about not needing to wear a mask. Pence is the name & probably the value of his intelligence.

The Vietnam war was because the US feared the Vietnamese would become communists. All the Vietnamese ever wanted was their independence.

Australian leaders as they always do followed behind the US, hiding under their shirt tails. The same behavior is still happening with Scot Morrison supporting Trump. The position we are placing our selves in behind & under the US can only lead to us being covered in excrement. Attached is an excerpt from the US courts. If you want to follow this it will take some time as the US media & Google slaves go to some length to hide or distort the truth. We are also copying them in that respect as those concerned about our media freedom will know that the recent raid on journalists was to prevent the exposure of the murder of civilians by Australian forces in Afghanistan.

We are proud Aussie's & dont need to rely on, or copy the US.

John Roberts

bobkerrybutcher.pdf

usciviliankilling.pdf

[Thruster88]

I also visited the Ho Chi Minh museum with my daughter in march this year, seems a long time ago now. There was not a dry eye in the place. My opinion not all soldiers deserve respect and that probably causes a lot of grief for the good ones.

[onetrack]

The whole story of U.S. Forces brutality in Vietnam is a lot more involved. The North Vietnamese Communists were excellent at indoctrination, to the point of utilising children if needed as combatants.

A little known story of the Vietnam War, is the "Coke girl" murderer. Pre-pubescent girls would sell bottles of Coca-Cola from a little trolley on the street to thirsty G.I.'s.

 

Then the girl would wait until about 10 G.I.'s were clustered around her, and then lift her skirt and pull the pin on a hand grenade taped to her thigh.

The Mad Muzzies are not alone in practising suicide bombings, it was common practice in Vietnam.

 

One must never forget the people of South Vietnam did not capitulate to the Communists of the North by general agreement or by any ratified arrangement.

They were, and still are, a people who were overthrown by the most brutal terrorism, called Vietnamese Communism, one could ever hope to not see.

 

Typical VC and NVA actions were to enter a village that was known to be anti-Communist. They would then slaughter the headman and his whole family in cold blood, in front of all the assembled villagers.

If there were any protests or allied supporters of the headman, they would be slaughtered, too.

 

Then the remaining villagers would be told that the Communists ruled this village and this part of the country - and that the villagers would be taxed (via money or food contributions) to support the VC and NVA.

This is not democracy, this is brutality and terrorism on a scale with Stalins and Lenins purges of Russia, and the North Vietnamese followed Marxist-Leninist techniques with little modification.

 

"Modern" Vietnam is a country founded on brutal, ruthless murder and terrorism, on a par with Pol Pot and his ilk.

But Pol Pot is vilified, and the leaders of Vietnam today are treated as worthy leaders, and Western business people flock to deal with them. I find this kow-towing to murderers and terrorists, detestable.

[Student Pilot]

Onetrack, have you read "Jungle of Snakes"? A history of insurgency warfare, starting with how the Americans perfected the concentration camp in the Philippians. War is war, there are no rules contrary to what some of you say. If you carpet bomb whole areas of civilian villages then you have to expect retaliation. Not everybody has access to hundreds of B52's so they fight back the only way they can.

[Litespeed]

Onetrack,

 

That is a very one sided view.

 

If a man murders a few in a village and saves the rest, it is a brutal murderous way to get support or prevent dissent. That is a long known tactic all the way before the Romans.

But to claim you are giving freedom by murdering every one in the village and raping at will then killing is completely different. That was the American and for some the Australian way- no comparison at all.

 

We can not justify our excessive blood lust and inhumanity because someone else did it before us and to magnify our ways to kill everyone in sight on the assumption "everyone is a combatant" is genocidal and anyone who justifies it can only be classed as psychopathic. Their is no difference between this and the 911 terrorists on the basis" everyone is a combatant" as such any child in the USA would be a legitimate target as they live in America the enemy state. No American could accept this but happily force this regime on everyone else. Psychotic dissonance maybe?

 

American exceptionalism is the most dangerous political thought in history, it is naturally a fallacy but one they will use to kill anyone who opposes them- or they believe might oppose them. From the moment the Puritans arrived, America has been a nation hell bent on murdering anyone they see less than their god, beliefs or not in their interest. If you get in their way- you are subject to deadly sanction. They no longer even declare enemies but kill them via drone.

 

No amount of death by the enemy can justify the actions of the USA and those that have happily followed them including us Aussies.

 

Why has the USA refused all international laws and conventions on weapons control (nukes a limited exception) and war crimes? Simple they know they are war criminals and like any criminal, you don't vote for laws that stop you.

 

Want to go kill a hundred people and get away with it?

Join the US military.

 

YOU can not kill millions and justify it because some tin pot dictator killed a thousand.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Litespeed

[Yenn]

It will not be long before we are at it again. Supposedly the North Koreans have fired at a South Korean gunpost in the DMZ. That news must have come from the US who have their forces right there. Trump is looking more and more ridiculous and even the yanks may be noticing it. He needs something to distract the voters. that and blaming China for producing the Corona Virus will be a good start to his warmongering. Pity is our PM will be jumpimg up and down and shouting "Me, Me. I want to be in there with you"

Once again Aussies will go off to please the Yanks to an unjust war.

I only hope I am just being cynical.

[facthunter]

The Madness will continue until the election and even after. IF he gets back in, there will be no stopping him and IF he doesn't what will his armed supporters do?

We was robbed/ cheated by an unfair election. Fake Our man is ALL for US and look what the system has done to him. KILL KILL KILL etc. It's China's/Russia's anybody you can think of but Trump's fault. Nuke Em MAKE USA grate again.. Show the bastards. Nev

[turboplanner]

This thread started out as a good thought for remembering the Anzac soldiers, but no forum has the capacity to capture WW1, WW2, and the Vietnam War let alone drawing conclusions from isolated incidents.

I watched a documentary series on the Vietnam War a few months ago; it was probably 20 hours of video, and the documentary started with Ho Chi Minh spending his life working in France from about 1911, working for General Motors in the USA as a Line Manager, and working in the UK, and followed the political scene in Vietnam from the way the French drawn into conflict, to the US sending military advisers because of an Alliance Pact and the years of these conflicts eventually leading to the overthrow of the French and the decisions the US had to make in the face of China's ambitions at the time, of the later commitment of troops, and the wrong twists and turns that each side made during the Vietnam War which emerged from this. The war was a long time after the US started supporting the French; quite a different story to the one we got from the press in the late 1960s. The findamental point about a war is that it's a commitment to kill people, hopefully the enemy's soldiers, but when the tit and tat sets in millions of civilians can be killed as well. To pick one incident of set of incidents out of the huge picture is just plain misleading. Millions of words have been written about thousands of wars, and the general theme is that at the end a small percentage of soldiers have committed crimes on both side.

Anyone who thinks Australia is hanging on to the coat tails of the US because of someone like Trump doesn't know their history; doesn't realise that BRitain abandoned Australia in WW2 and when the Japanese attacked Papua New Guinea, our Defence point was the Brisbane Line - Central and FNQ were to be ceded to the Japanese. The USA came to our aid, and provided a US General to hold our Territory, Papua New Guinea, and that was the basis for the alliance, and why we've gone to war in tandem ever since.

[Litespeed]

Turbo,

 

I call bullshite exuse for us to follow the Yanks into a death cult.

 

Did Japan invade Australia? No

Did they intend to? No, that was clear at the time to the powers and Japan only wished to keep us out of the battle.

Did the Yanks stop the Japs in PNG? No , we did with our troops.

Did the yanks stop the Japanese in the Coral sea to save us? Absolutely not, it was just a extension of the pacific war.

The Yanks under the cover of saviours used us to become economic vassals for weapons, war and trade ever since. We where their staging and training ground and any thoughts of our welfare were very much a secondary issue.

 

Our strategic needs in WW2 are a very poor excuse for our waging war on who America does not like. No other "victors" of WW2 have decided they are "owned" by the USA for war in their name.

 

Because The USA belatedly did the right thing in late ww1 and late ww2 - after selling weapons to both sides and financing the enemy- does not make it a good idea 75 years later.

 

In that 75 years we have kowtowed to uncle Sam and followed in every unjust war they have created. In 75 years we have only followed them into murderous rampage against poor ( or make them poor)countries that do not agree with the USA view. Hence comments from the states like- "Bomb them into the stone age".

 

Those with any real understanding of the world of politics and war see this as self evident.

 

No amount of "all the way with LBJ" bullshite can change reality.

 

Are we better off having the USA as a friend- YES.

 

Should we jump into the fight when our psychotic friend gets drunk on power and blood? Hell no, call a man with straight jacket. True friends stop their mates doing stupid stuff and when he starts murdering people a real friend would stop him or if need be put him down.

 

Anyone notice certain people have a very political view of history and follow their political masters- esp when its other people fighting on their behalf.

 

The LNP- war mongers is in the DNA.

 

For 75 years we have seen ANZUS used as a excuse for mass murder adventures.