The app

[kasper]

I've downloaed it - ran it for 6 hours and turned it off. I am aware of the sucurity risks but assessed them as acceptable to me - but it still had to work with my life and use of the phone.

The way it has to work on an Iphone impacts very adversly on battery life on my older 6SE (100% to 0% in under 6hrs ... I only saw the phone was dead after 6hrs so can't say how long it actually took to hit 0%).

As I need to have the phone workable with me for the entire business day it is unworkable for me - without that app my phone battery charge lasted all day 6am-11pm with overnight charge.

[Thruster88]

I've downloaed it - ran it for 6 hours and turned it off. I am aware of the sucurity risks but assessed them as acceptable to me - but it still had to work with my life and use of the phone.

The way it has to work on an Iphone impacts very adversly on battery life on my older 6SE (100% to 0% in under 6hrs ... I only saw the phone was dead after 6hrs so can't say how long it actually took to hit 0%).

As I need to have the phone workable with me for the entire business day it is unworkable for me - without that app my phone battery charge lasted all day 6am-11pm with overnight charge.

 

I believe there will be an improved version for the iPhone so it works in the same way as android. Has only added a few percent each day on my samsung.

[jetjr]

Shouldn't impact battery life, suggest something might be wrong, no impact on our 5SE's I can see.

Bluetooth uses hardly any power unless communicating and the app has nothing to do with GPS or network.

 

It picks up when you spend more than 15 minutes within Bluetooth range with another App user, logs details, doesn't send them anywhere.

IF you are (or they) then diagnosed, you press the button (and with code given by testing lab) and send this data to health people and they can more easily and quickly contact those you've been around and who are at risk of having got virus from you

Also works in reverse where you get alert that someone you've spent time with has been diagnosed and you can take steps to be tested and avoid giving to others

The whole point is to be informed earlier and allow targeted reactions to diagnosed cases rather than whole community lockdowns.

Even if a percentage of cases managed this way it will reduce risk somewhat - at the least it will help work out actually how the virus moves and what risks really are rather than predictions and guesswork.

 

Right now warnings to those who have been around diagnosed cases is taking weeks and way too late. Whole families and local networks been potentially exposed by that time.

[kgwilson]

I think instead of your phone sleeping , it is better for those " cold callers " overseas advertising chaps to know MY phone is OFF when not needed.

Bluetooth does take a little of battery life, as it's another program working & looking for a partner Bluetooth, to latch-on-to.

Surly, If you haven't activated "roaming/ GPS, & my position. IT can't follow you ?.

If No phone coverage, how do they contact you to say " you have been assessed as being too close for comfort".

spacesailor

 

When a phone is set to "do not disturb" it is for the purposes of someone calling, Off. There are 95 Apps on my phone. I charged it fully yesterday after lunch and it still has 74% battery left as at 4:10pm today.

 

I have made a couple of calls, retrieved voicemails & messages, checked the weather, got local TAFs & Metars via Avia Weather, the news & ran XCSoar for an hour when I went for a fly today.

 

Having the Covid-safe app running does not mean bluetooth uses more power. If bluetooth is on it doesn't matter whether you have a number of apps running that use it, it consumes the same amount of power. Each app you have running consumes a small amount of power but when they run in the background like Covid-Safe it is minimal. As I said earlier I have WiFi and Bluetooth on permanently.

 

Your phone is tracked by your Telco when you are in range. The Telco knows which tower your phone is currently locked on to and they use triangulation using other nearby towers to pinpoint your location. This helps the handover process as you move away from one tower and closer to another. Google does the same but uses the phones GPS and satellites to determine an accurate location. You can turn your GPS off but unless you take the SIM card out your Telco knows where the phone is so long as you are getting a signal.

 

The way it has to work on an Iphone impacts very adversly on battery life on my older 6SE (100% to 0% in under 6hrs ...

It does work better on Android phones. Although they deny it Apple has always built in redundancy with their phones like slowing them down to make you buy a new one. They were caught out with this. The 6SE was considered a budget iPhone when released 4 years ago, though nothing from Apple is budget price. Personally I won't go near iPhones for the reasons stated.

 

My phone is an LG G6, bought a year ago for $260.00. It was new to the market in 2017. 4GB of RAM & 64GB storage expandable to to 2 TB and is also dual SIM, water & dust proof with 3 cameras etc. Find me an equivalent iPhone for that price.

[Student Pilot]

I wonder what condition the USA will be in then. it's certainly uncertain. Nev

Not going to the US

[Flightrite]

Turbo - given it was stated to be his opinion your reply in my opinion comes close to attacking the poster by implication rather than the topic.

 

Yes that was dissapointing to get that response but am not surprised sadly ?

[spacesailor]

My phone has neighther WIFI Blue tooth nor data switched on, and, just to annoy those that like to track, I switch it off, often.

So no trianglation, on this phone untill I,m thinking of using it. Especially driving !??

spacesailor

[octave]

Edit - so what happens when you are driving and passing cars? Do they all register as bluetooth latches on?

 

 

My phone has neighther WIFI Blue tooth nor data switched on, and, just to annoy those that like to track, I switch it off, often.

So no trianglation, on this phone untill I,m thinking of using it. Especially driving !??

spacesailor

 

If your phone is on it can be tracked. I guess the questions is why would anyone bother.

 

Two cars passing would not register as they are not within 1.5 metres for more than 15 minutes.

[pmccarthy]

What is the medical basis for 15 minutes? You can catch it by shaking hands or coughing on someone.

[octave]

What is the medical basis for 15 minutes? You can catch it by shaking hands or coughing on someone.

 

I think it comes from a statistical analysis of how long people who have become infected spent in the presence of an infected person. The same applies to the distance of 1.5 metres. This does not mean it is impossible to catch it at less than 15 minutes or at more than 1.5 metres just statistically unlikely. Live viruses have been found on door knobs but this does not mean it is a likely source of infection. The chance of catching it is a sliding scale, there is no precise time or distance just an icreasing chance with proxity and time.

[kasper]

If your phone is on it can be tracked. I guess the questions is why would anyone bother.

 

Two cars passing would not register as they are not within 1.5 metres for more than 15 minutes.

Not exactly correct. The Bluetooth handshake has to record the start of the proximity of another app enabled Bluetooth device and the duration so it will be seeking Bluetooth signals art all times and working out distance for all positive contacts to then start a 15 min count once it works out it’s within distance. The 15 min only comes in when that close contact has exceeded 15 min then it’s written to the handset available for sending in if requested and your permit.

the app runs constantly seeking any-all Bluetooth devices to identify ... and that is how it can use battery.

my nice old iPhone has served me for 4 years .., it’s predecessor iPhone lasted nearly 5 yrs. and my experience is that the app kills my phones battery in an unacceptable timeframe. Yes it’s an older handset. Yes it’s a budget model. Yes I actually don’t use Bluetooth at all other than this app. And yes - I would use the app IF it worked with my handset and pattern of life. It doesn’t so I’m off the app.

[APenNameAndThatA]

Downloading the app = endorsing Scomo's lies (to me). So, no.

[octave]

I have absolutely no problem with anyone who does not wish to install the app. One reason I have the app is that being in a high risk category I would rather know asap if I have been close to someone who turns out to be infected. This is a practical reason for me even if it is very far from perfect. I have to weigh this up against the practical down sides. No one really has articulated the in practice what the down sides are, other than a non specific mistrust of government. Life is full of compromises. Again I have no problem with those who chose not to but for me the pros outweigh the cons.

[Flightrite]

Downloading the app = endorsing Scomo's lies (to me). So, no.

 

Well said!?its about choice, not dictatorship!

[jetjr]

Id prefer to know so as fast as possible I can avoid family and those in society who have a high chance of death from virus - reduced risk

Wouldnt care much about my rights if I found out id passed it on and they died.

The second wave of infections was far worse in previous pandemics and because we have done a great job slowing the first, makes this scenario more likely

[Bryon]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure that as soon as you are found to be COV19 positive, you have to be quarantined until you get TWO consecutive negative results

If that is the case, the only people who should be out and about are people who have tested negative, so what use is it?

I am getting cynical in my old age and can only see this as a tracking device.

Also, the information is held by Amazon, and AFAIK, they have been known to sell personal information

[octave]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure that as soon as you are found to be COV19 positive, you have to be quarantined until you get TWO consecutive negative results

If that is the case, the only people who should be out and about are people who have tested negative, so what use is it?

I am getting cynical in my old age and can only see this as a tracking device.

Also, the information is held by Amazon, and AFAIK, they have been known to sell personal information

 

The way it works is that you go about your business under the assumption that you don't have it, later you start to get symptoms so you get tested. At this point the app can be analyzed so that the people (that have the app) that you have come into contact with whilst you were contagious but asymptomatic can be traced and quarantined so that they don't continue the chain of infection

 

This is the thing that makes this disease worse than others the fact you are contagious before you get symptoms

[red750]

Question - If this had been introduced by Shortarxe or Elbow-Kneesy, would you still refuse to download it?

[kgwilson]

It is everyones right to be sceptical and successive governments over the past 20 years or more have done nothing to improve public perception. The difference as I see it is this issue is related to public health and has bi-partisan support. Anything that can assist with reducing the spread of Covid-19 that is free, does not track your movements or even identify you other than by your phone number which is already tracked anyway has to be of help. A lot of us who frequent this site are in the vulnerability group by virtue of age and some with pre-existing conditions. Every day new effects are being discovered such as blood clots causing heat and liver problems as well as strokes in people in their 30s & 40s and Kawasaki disease in children so it no longer just a respiratory illness.

 

As has been said transmission happens before you become symptomatic and even where outbreaks have occurred and people including health care professionals who are already using a lot of PPE are still becoming infected. Over 100 have died in the UK, many young and previously healthy. 27 died in the US by the 14th of April. It is no longer dangerous just to old people with pre-exiting conditions, it can kill anyone.

 

The app is just another line of defence & I am happier with it than without it.

[facthunter]

On the question of TRUST. Trust has to be earned not demanded. I'm constantly amazed by people believing PROVEN consistent LIARS. What is a LIAR's word worth? In my opinion NOTHING.. The opposition often get wedged on matters so they might give an "in principle " agreement . That is with limits or reservations which disappears in the commentary., when one is constantly point scoring as if an election will be tomorrow. Nev

[KRviator]

On the question of TRUST. Trust has to be earned not demanded. I'm constantly amazed by people believing PROVEN consistent LIARS. What is a LIAR's word worth? In my opinion NOTHING..

That's what it comes down to for me. "Never trust the word of a politician". Says "Them" - "Not even a court order can get access to the data!" aahh, grasshopper, that might be true while your Ministerial Determination is valid, but that can be withdrawn or amended at any time...And even then, if the data is held by AWS, a company incorporated in the Good 'Ol USA, the data they hold - even if it's on an international server - must be handed over to the US Government if they so demand, AIUI.

 

So, "Download the app to ease restrictions!", yeah, nah.

[Thruster88]

Google without any prior prompting from me that I am aware of recently asked if I would like to review the months travel activities. It correctly showed every trip away from the house and were we had eaten, shopped or spent any time. All this data must be stored somewhere. Since I am not a two phone criminal it is not a concern for me. Privacy, political truthfulness and political alignment were not factors in my decision to install the app.

[Student Pilot]

KR, you on bookface, twitter or Instagram?

[spacesailor]

S P

I'm Not on any of those .

BUT

I'm on Recreational Flying.

Many thanks to all & sundry for a great forum.spacesailor

[KRviator]

KR, you on bookface, twitter or Instagram?

FB, yes, nothing else - but the big difference there is they don't want my mobile number. I'm not naive enough to think an awful lot of my data is out there - that's a given when companies are operating to make a profit. But when it's a statutory body (aka the Government) asking for those details I'm not required to provide in order to receive a service, particularly when they won't release the source code to their app or legislate protections before telling me to download it, well, that's too many alarm bells for me to be comfortable with it.

 

You only have to look at Brendan Murphy's allegations about that pissup in NW Taswegia to feel they don't have their ducks in a row. Quite happy to target specific people with allegations alone and no factual basis on which to hang his hat, only to have to back pedal down the track. "Mandatory sentencing" laws that are supposed to be enforced for assaults on EMS workers, but soft-c*ck magistrates over-ruling that legislation. I don't think there's any chance of it happening, but what would the courts say if the only piece of evidence that could convict a murderer was the COVID-safe app's digital handshake that proved he had contact with the victim at XX time? Would they let a murderer walk free, or would they cave and say "well, it's the greater good..." and overrule the minister's Determination?