The app

[turboplanner]

Yeah, catch a few little fish and let the sharks swim freely. The BIG tax avoiders should pay also.The ATO is understaffed to do what it has to already. It failed dismally to work through the Algorithm based robo debt debacle. .Do you KNOW anyone who got caught up in that one, turbs? IF you do why would you trust this government with anything connected with IT.? Recall the Census also. Nev

What happened in the Census?

[octave]

What happened in the Census?

 

I guess this is what is being referred to. Census 2016: Government, IBM settle over website crash Not exactly a security issue as I remember it.

 

It is important not the throw the baby out with the bathwater. Any app or government program will have pros and cons. If I go into a bank I will be recorded by cctv. My phone location information is used to detect traffic and many more things like this. These all have costs and benefits. In many of these things we are not given a choice but on the whole we do our own cost benefit analysis and accept the idea or not.

 

I have given practical examples of how this app could have reduced or prevented bad outcomes such as Newmarch house but no one has given any practical examples of things that could happen because of the app.

 

As the lockdown is relaxed there will be spikes in infections and how quickly these spikes are detected and dealt with will play into future lockdowns.

 

It is imperative that when someone tests positive all of their contacts are found if we are to return to normality.

[facthunter]

It fell over. You can look it up. I don't know how you missed that one. Stuart Roberts even had a similar "MY BAD" recently when he misinformed the Parliament on a gov. website failure. Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

I'm old fashioned too and don't carry a phone except when the wife makes me. Most of the time its out of charge and anyway it takes me a while to find it.

There are phone people and I'm not one. I lived my life without one for many years and just don't like them much. Not that I begrudge phone people... I'm the same with TV. Having grown up without it, I don't like it much and it takes very little for me to get up and walk away.

So while this virus app is sensible in a way, it's just not for me.

[turboplanner]

It fell over. You can look it up. I don't know how you missed that one.

I thought you were referring to some criminal activity of the government.

Since the digital age really started, I must have been told a thousand times "the system crashed" - that's not criminal acitivity.

 

Australia's latest key figures are: Population 24.99 million, 6,767 cases to date, 93 deaths - our policy is to use an app to alert for any clusters

Scotland: 5,45 million people, 11,654 casa, 1,515 deaths - they don't have an app

 

Let's see how these two countries go forward. As we know know, the virus can expand very rapidly if a cluster develops.

[facthunter]

Octave .. Everyone will make their own choice for their OWN reasons. IF this app works without a downside that will be a good thing BUT as many point out the are of another view, at least for the time being.

. Scott says ,No Pubs or earlymarks till you do the right thing and download the app. Why not work with what you have It's still something, but those people are probably the ones doing the correct things anyhow The renegades/outlaws will probably leave their phones in the car and many don't have a suitable phone Do they KNOW what the POSSIBLE max number is? Why is it a one size fits all when clearly the states have the responsibility of working consistent with their own medico's advice OR they incur a liability at LAW. Same with the Private School administrators and the early money IF you are 50% by July (urging/coercion.) Not very subtle or proper and something of an OWN goal.

Turbs Having the app has NO part of why we are where we are at this point in time. I thoroughly agree with your last sentence. WE haven't performed optimally. Too slow starting the lockdown and a few other points (like cruise ship violations) but we have done very well in a co operative way. This app is not the fix all . IF it is THAT critical make it compulsory and not play politics with the states and make a game of it. THEN there will be more of the TRUST required. not just make progress dependent on the latest idea which may not reach the yet unstated target participation rate. Nev

Edited May 2, 2020 by facthunter

[turboplanner]

Same with the Private School administrators and the early money IF you are 50% by July (urging/coercion.) Not very subtle or proper and something of an OWN goal. Nev

About 90% of Victorians seem to have got the logic of this on the day it was announced.

Some private schools (with ongoing expenses but no income) told the Federal government they were having cash flow problems. The Federal government allowed them to pull forward 1 or 2 monthly payments depending on what they needed, subject to some pupil-number minimums.

This was a resonse to requests from the schools.

Not so hard to understand.

[pmccarthy]

If we could access the contacts from our own phone ourselves it would help young women remember who the father was and help older people like me remember when they last saw their friends.

[facthunter]

The administrators had just 2 days to sign up. Your sources of information don't agree with what I've found . So be it .Your "not so hard to understand" is gratuitous and doesn't contribute anything of value to a discussion. Nev

[turboplanner]

The administrators had just 2 days to sign up. Your sources of information don't agree with what I've found . So be it .Your "not so hard to understand" is gratuitous and doesn't contribute anything of value to a discussion. Nev

There was a request; there was an approval with a 2 day cutoff for an acceptance. A lot of financial decisions have been made with the same speed over the past two months. If that money is taken up by the schools it is not available immediately for something else. We are not operating or normal timescales.

[facthunter]

There are legal issues that require more time than that for individual school management to properly address. (2 days) That was brought up byTHEM. .Yes there was a push from that sector as they were experiencing financial hardship. That period was some time ago, probably about 5 weeks. Moving an expected NORMAL payment forward is not much of a fix but the offer (small as it was and with conditions aimed at weakening the Victorian medical officers position) was clearly political. Legally it has no basis to apply and as I said ended up being an own goal. Polling shows that. Nev

[KRviator]

So this is the latest ABC story on the app...

 

More than 4 million people have downloaded the COVIDSafe app, but the system granting health authorities access to the information it collects is not yet operational.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has called the app a vital tool in protecting Australians against coronavirus.

But the ABC has confirmed that if a person tests positive to coronavirus today, the information on the mobile application will be of no use to health authorities because the states and territories are yet to finalise how the data can be used.

"The rules on privacy are being finalised, along with final IT testing," a Department of Health spokesman said.

4 million people have downloaded it before they have finalised just who or how access to the data will be granted? Niiiice.....

[Flightrite]

So this is the latest ABC story on the app...

 

4 million people have downloaded it before they have finalised just who or how access to the data will be granted? Niiiice.....

 

Hey it's Australia, worlds best practice remember!? We are a third world country sometimes with a first world facade!?

[skydog]

I will not download it. I dont trust Morrison or any politician. Yes he is blackmailing the public, downoad or restrictions will not be lifted. Yes google has tracking but you can turn it off! Amazon is getting all the data, another reason not to download it. I read the app is not effective unless 40% of the population download it. Thats a lot of people and the way its going I suspect it will fall well short. The yanks have more guts than us apathetic rollovers, when it comes to personal rights, it would not and is not happening there. Shame they started distancing too late tho . Thats stupid Trumps fault

[Paulmilo]

Hopefully it's only temporary, so not a long term battery issue. the app will only activate BlueTooth when it pairs with someone in close proximity, which will only be when you go into town and stand next to someone or the Shell tanker guy arrives and you offer him morning tea, or the Elders guy shows up and wants you to sign something etc. it only activates when you've contacted an infected person.

While the west of the State is quiet, you can't see the asymptomatic cases, which could be a nurse coming home to Penshurst exhausted after a month's emergency work. Also SA had a scare a month ago when a single group of tourists infected Mount Gamber, Tantanoola, Penola Coonawarra and Bordertown. Fortunately all those people survived hospital and the South East seems clear.

You can't see asymptomatic; one nurse had worked several shifts in a nursing home asymptomatic, and 12 people have died so far with potentially more to come. The Covidsafe app, if available and downloaded at the time may have triggered before any of the inmates were infected.

 

For the BT to pickup another phone, it has to be searching ALL OF THE TIME. If BT is off, it will never pickup proximity. So the App would need to be running with BT searching and then pairing with a phone within 1.5m for x minutes. Hence I expect this will impact battery life. If it doesn't, then they should sell that code because it will be worth a small fortune.

[Flightrite]

I will not download it. I dont trust Morrison or any politician. Yes he is blackmailing the public, downoad or restrictions will not be lifted. Yes google has tracking but you can turn it off! Amazon is getting all the data, another reason not to download it. I read the app is not effective unless 40% of the population download it. Thats a lot of people and the way its going I suspect it will fall well short. The yanks have more guts than us apathetic rollovers, when it comes to personal rights, it would not and is not happening there. Shame they started distancing too late tho . Thats stupid Trumps fault[ATTACH type=full" alt="94747360_2779811878802647_2216184282714472448_n.png]52849[/ATTACH]

Your first line says it all!?

[Mike Borgelt]

Someone has to die so no problem

Thanks, Karen.

 

One of my brothers in law came up with a great term the other day "Toxic Conformity"

[jackc]

If the Govt roll up here and I get grilled for non compliance, sorry mate as it won’t work on my iPhone4s. Besides, being in the bush, the closest living things here are Kangaroos. We have 3 months food at all times, yes I was born of wartime parents......not forgotten.

[Thruster88]

I will not download it. I dont trust Morrison or any politician. Yes he is blackmailing the public, downoad or restrictions will not be lifted.

 

The yanks have more guts than us apathetic rollovers, when it comes to personal rights, it would not and is not happening there. Shame they started distancing too late tho . Thats stupid Trumps fault

 

The yanks are lifting restrictions because they have "flattened the curve", I will watch with interest. Glad to be be an Aussie apathetic rollover or are we less stupid.

[Kyle Communications]

Ho Hum waffle waffle put all your tin foil hats on...cant believe how gullable and ridiculous most of the comments here are. Almost as bad a Bookface. Its bluetooth for gods sake and no positional data... all it does is collect the phone IEMI's that you are close to for specified time periods. If a person that you were near to contracts COVID 19 then the data in their phone is downloaded and it has to be with your permission is then looked at to get the IEMI of those people that you have been close to so they can be tested to see if they are infected. If you have any mobile phone you can be tracked positionally whether you have your wifi or bluetooth turned on or not. Yes your battery is slightly loaded a bit more but hardly any because there is a sleep cycle on the bluetooth that is small but saves a lot of power and it takes literally microseconds to get the data. All this privacy lunacy is crap..you are being tracked right now by your IP address accessing this forum and anything you type or even say can be tracked and if you use encryption they still know a lot of data about where you are. The general public have no idea what is actually possible they just THINK they know and they dont.

 

Having been doing electronics and comms for more than 30 years and doing satellite comms for private , commercial, australian security services and defence you guys have no idea what is actually possible...you only see what they let you see. Download the app and leave it on. In the scheme of things it is actually nothing but a program to try to nip this virus in the butt...they have way way more interesting stuff on you already. Remember of course all of this info is only good to them IF you are doing something wrong otherwise they have no interest in you what so ever..same as CCTV cameras in malls and shopping areas...no one cares if your picking your nose or scratching your bum but if your up to no good then thats when they will be looking at and for you.

 

Bookface and other social media track you and gather far more important information about you and your family and friends and you let them do it. Grow at least half a brain and open your eyes and see what really are the facts not the crap you are told by conspiracy nuts or woke lefties or far right nutbags.

 

When GSM was first bought in here in OZ its launch was delayed because ASIO could not listen to any of the data on the networks. It was launched after they could listen in. Its been the same ever since digital comms was invented..if you think you are secure then you are sadly mistaken and very ilinformed

[jackc]

Ho Hum waffle waffle put all your tin foil hats on...cant believe how gullable and ridiculous most of the comments here are. Almost as bad a Bookface. Its bluetooth for gods sake and no positional data... all it does is collect the phone IEMI's that you are close to for specified time periods. If a person that you were near to contracts COVID 19 then the data in their phone is downloaded and it has to be with your permission is then looked at to get the IEMI of those people that you have been close to so they can be tested to see if they are infected. If you have any mobile phone you can be tracked positionally whether you have your wifi or bluetooth turned on or not. Yes your battery is slightly loaded a bit more but hardly any because there is a sleep cycle on the bluetooth that is small but saves a lot of power and it takes literally microseconds to get the data. All this privacy lunacy is crap..you are being tracked right now by your IP address accessing this forum and anything you type or even say can be tracked and if you use encryption they still know a lot of data about where you are. The general public have no idea what is actually possible they just THINK they know and they dont.

 

Having been doing electronics and comms for more than 30 years and doing satellite comms for private , commercial, australian security services and defence you guys have no idea what is actually possible...you only see what they let you see. Download the app and leave it on. In the scheme of things it is actually nothing but a program to try to nip this virus in the butt...they have way way more interesting stuff on you already. Remember of course all of this info is only good to them IF you are doing something wrong otherwise they have no interest in you what so ever..same as CCTV cameras in malls and shopping areas...no one cares if your picking your nose or scratching your bum but if your up to no good then thats when they will be looking at and for you.

 

Bookface and other social media track you and gather far more important information about you and your family and friends and you let them do it. Grow at least half a brain and open your eyes and see what really are the facts not the crap you are told by conspiracy nuts or woke lefties or far right nutbags.

 

When GSM was first bought in here in OZ its launch was delayed because ASIO could not listen to any of the data on the networks. It was launched after they could listen in. Its been the same ever since digital comms was invented..if you think you are secure then you are sadly mistaken and very ilinformed

 

Mark, you have rained on our parade......after us all scheming for a good story:-). I can add fuel to the fire......do you know the Govt uses our kitchen toaster, to spy on us?

[snakenjac]

Personel choice, I don't trust the Govt so pass!

Do you trust Google, Twitter, Instagram etc etc - they all have greater access than the virus app!

[kgwilson]

Ho Hum waffle waffle put all your tin foil hats on...cant believe how gullable and ridiculous most of the comments here are. Almost as bad a Bookface. Its bluetooth for gods sake and no positional data... all it does is collect the phone IEMI's that you are close to for specified time periods. If a person that you were near to contracts COVID 19 then the data in their phone is downloaded and it has to be with your permission is then looked at to get the IEMI of those people that you have been close to so they can be tested to see if they are infected. If you have any mobile phone you can be tracked positionally whether you have your wifi or bluetooth turned on or not. Yes your battery is slightly loaded a bit more but hardly any because there is a sleep cycle on the bluetooth that is small but saves a lot of power and it takes literally microseconds to get the data. All this privacy lunacy is crap..you are being tracked right now by your IP address accessing this forum and anything you type or even say can be tracked and if you use encryption they still know a lot of data about where you are. The general public have no idea what is actually possible they just THINK they know and they dont.

 

Having been doing electronics and comms for more than 30 years and doing satellite comms for private , commercial, australian security services and defence you guys have no idea what is actually possible...you only see what they let you see. Download the app and leave it on. In the scheme of things it is actually nothing but a program to try to nip this virus in the butt...they have way way more interesting stuff on you already. Remember of course all of this info is only good to them IF you are doing something wrong otherwise they have no interest in you what so ever..same as CCTV cameras in malls and shopping areas...no one cares if your picking your nose or scratching your bum but if your up to no good then thats when they will be looking at and for you.

 

Bookface and other social media track you and gather far more important information about you and your family and friends and you let them do it. Grow at least half a brain and open your eyes and see what really are the facts not the crap you are told by conspiracy nuts or woke lefties or far right nutbags.

 

When GSM was first bought in here in OZ its launch was delayed because ASIO could not listen to any of the data on the networks. It was launched after they could listen in. Its been the same ever since digital comms was invented..if you think you are secure then you are sadly mistaken and very ilinformed

Said much of this in post 67 in a slightly different way but some just keep banging away with the same uninformed gibberish and either don't read other posts telling them they have been tracked for years without GPS or any social media apps or just will not accept that it happens and all of a sudden when something comes along to help with our national health Big Bad Brother is out to get me..

[Possum1]

Fortunately, I don't have decision to make about this app either way.

 

My phone is a Telstra EasyCall 3, which I had to get when Telstra turned off 2G and I had to ditch my indestructible Nokia 3310. Before that it was a Nokia 1610, which I had to buy when analog was switched off and I had to ditch my 018 number.

 

My phone sits in its leather pouch on my belt where it has always been since 1995. The Easycall 3 battery charge lasts a week. I think it is great phone and a definite improvement on the old 3310. I don't use any data at all but it would be nice if it had a camera...

 

So I will get the popcorn out and watch with interest from the sidelines.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I'm sure that Kylecomms is right, but what some people are thinking is that there are not many times when you get to express your disapproval of the government and this is one of them. Raiding journalists for example. They are keeping the stuff they stole even though the raid was eventually ruled illegal. I reckon this ruling only happened after the government discovered that the raids were unpopular.

There is a difference between having them covertly spy and openly agreeing to assist them.