The app

[Bruce Tuncks]

On the subject of spying, what secrets do we have anyway? There was a movie where people were killed over secrets, and the secrets turned out to be details of russian naval exercises in the Black Sea. The secrets were pathetic.

In history, atomic bomb secrets were thought of as important. The fact was that all the stuff had been published in physics journals in the 1920's and 30's.

So called secrets turn out to be only there to protect powerful people from the truth. For example, the whole cabinet had to pretend to believe that Saddam had " weapons of mass destruction ". The rest of the world scoffed at this, but if it got out that the government knew that it was all nonsense, they would be seen as liars. The fact that cabinet members privately thought there were no weapons of mass destruction was probably Australia's biggest secret.

I wonder what the current secrets are supposed to be about. Any suggestions?

[Old Koreelah]

...It is imperative that when someone tests positive all of their contacts are found if we are to return to normality.

This is the core of the issue. Our government needs our help after spending years proving they cannot be trusted.

Millions of good Aussie citizens will wear quite a bit of inconvenience to do the right thing. Unfortunately, it's London to a Brick that after this is all over, this little incremental step in government control will not be dismantled.

[Old Koreelah]

...I'm the same with TV. Having grown up without it, I don't like it much and it takes very little for me to get up and walk away...

Bruce which is probably why you have a hangar and a couple of aeroplanes.

[Flightrite]

This is a most interesting thread, it seems some can't accept its personel choice and funnily enuf we are allowed a different opinion in this country (so far),but let the story continue!?

Edited May 3, 2020 by Flightrite

[facthunter]

Morrison wanted to make it compulsory but was dissuaded by some of his own people. Arguably, if it's as good as made out , you could argue a case, but I don't see that as a good move. and I don't believe it is an absolutely ESSENTIAL element and it's been made POLITICAL. It's also obvious that circumstances will vary from state to state and RESPONSIBLE advice would be different at times. Many Australian states are much bigger than a lot of Countries are. There's just been a break out at an abattoirs in Vic and it's ridiculous to compare it with WA, NT and SA as Tehan has done today. It's circumstances are more aligned with the east coast states but could be different to any. Nev

[Methusala]

Couldn't agree more, Nev. Similar to the mantra,"It's safe to open our schools." Morrison said that the idea of a "National Cabinet", was so that the states could control areas that they were responsible for. But the control freak must have his way. Note that it is a "National Cabinet" not COAG simply so that decisions are covered by the 20 or 30 year rule and remain secret.

[onetrack]

Everything about virus control and movement restrictions by the Govts (both State and Federal) has been half-cocked from the word Go.

New legislation and highly punitive penalties were introduced, and the Police administered them on an ad-hoc basis with little understanding, and even less compassion. So much so, a percentage of the fines issued were cancelled.

 

I got a W.A. Movement Pass between regions, because I'm doing some freight movements. But then I find highways that are not even covered by roadblocks/checkpoints between the regions.

Then I find a roadblock/checkpoint, and it's staffed by a couple of Police and several soldiers. The soldiers are bored out of their brain, because this isn't what they signed up for - to stop people and ask where they're going.

 

I've downloaded the W.A. Govt G2G app, and I have the Q-code on my phone. So I ask the young soldier if he wants to see my paper pass (printed off my computer), or read my Q-code.

He says, "I'm sorry I can't read your Q-code, only the Police have Q-code scanners, so I'll have to look at your printed pass". I show him my pass, and he glances at it, and he's happy, and waves me through.

 

Now, I've been through several regional checkpoints at this point - and NOT ONE has asked me for any personal ID, in the form of an MDL! I could have pinched anyones G2G pass, and be someone completely different!

I would have thought, the very first thing to be done at checkpoints, is ask for ID to verify the persons identity. But no-o-o, that seems to be completely unnecessary in W.A.!

 

With the clusterfXXX associated with every piece of Govt legislation and movement controls at this point, I won't be downloading any app - which is bound to contain major flaws!!

What happens when someone steals your unlocked phone? They could travel through a list of infected people and you'd get all the penalties!! - for life!! There'd be no way of correcting any major errors in the system!!

 

And of course, we constantly have politicians telling us the app is safe and secure, when they themselves have no idea how it works!

The problem is also, that shortly, the virus controls will become secondary, as attention to the damaged economy, joblessness and other major disruptions will take over!

[octave]

I consider myself to be rational and practical. The argument against seems to be mainly base on anxiety about what this could be used for in the future. These are worthwhile points to consider but there is a difference between healthy evidence based critiques an anxiety and cynicism.

Just expand on my previous PRACTICAL reasons for using the app are these:

 

My 92 year old father is in aged care interstate. The last time I visited him was in the early days of covid. Since then the home has been in lockdown and even my mother has been unable to visit. Visits will shortly resume for restricted hours and my mother has been told that she will need to prove that she has had a flu vaccine and it is strongly recommend that she have the app installed. I would assume that if I visit from interstate I will need both of these things. I have no problem complying with this. We newknow from the Newmarch house incident that infection in an aged care facility is disastrous. The benefits to me massively outweigh any possible privacy downside. When I go there I will most likely get a flight there, I will share this aircraft with perhaps 100 other people each one of whom may be presymptomatic but contagious, again the possible benefits for me at least outweigh the cons.

 

Although I am semi retired I still work as a part time as a music teacher in a private studio. At the moment i am teaching online but the studio owner would like to resume face to face lessons asap. I consider this job to be high risked given close contact in a small room and being wind instruments a considerable amount of spit. I will only resume face to face if all possible precautions are taken. I believe the owner intends to only offer work to those who are willing to take all precautions.

 

I suspect that it wont become mandatory in a legal sense but that many business owners may seek to protect their business by all means at their disposal. Imagine an engineering firm with perhaps 100 employees after they resume work in the next week or so. What a disaster it would be if the infection ran through the business, it would be as bad or as worse as another lockdown period.

 

There are different methods of keeping the infection rate down but ultimately it is about preventing those who have or have been exposed coming incontact with those who haven't. Lockdown has been successful here but it can't go on forever and there will be a second wave. We can deal with this in several ways but lockdown is not the most desirable way.

 

Regarding the example of someone getting hold of my phone, I can tell you that this app would be the least of my anxieties way down the list from the log in to my bank or super account or email. Al of these things contain sensitive data.

 

It is important to be ever vigilant when it comes to the creeping loss of privacy but I would consider this particular app to be pretty benign when it comes to invasion of privacy. There are plenty of things we all do every day that open us up to greater potential danger. How many people anxious about this use a VPN, how many people are anxious or suspicious are fine with the PBS? The government if they wish could find out what drugs we take.

Each visit to a doctor generates a medicare record. We are relaxed about these things because they are not new and they allow us to pay reasonable prices for our medication and medical treatment. It is about cost and benefit, pros and cons.

 

No one has yet presented practical cons other than battery life and the fact that some people don't have a smartphone (I don't think 100% coverage is needed or expected.)

 

I have no problem with people who have decided not to download and i also have no problem with business owners insisting on it for their employees.

[facthunter]

A SCHOOL now closed for 3 days in a northern suburb of Melbourne due staff member positive. .Tried unsuccessfully to be tested. Perhaps a few more things need to be in place before we crowd out the Pubs?. Nev

[pmccarthy]

Back about 1960 we lived in Albury and you had to go through a fruit fly check point to go to Wodonga. People used to go half way to Hume Weir and cross a bridge where there was no checkpoint. They weren't smuggling fruit, they just didn't like the invasive, authoritarian experience of someone peering into their car and perhaps asking them to step out.

[jackc]

Back about 1960 we lived in Albury and you had to go through a fruit fly check point to go to Wodonga. People used to go half way to Hume Weir and cross a bridge where there was no checkpoint. They weren't smuggling fruit, they just didn't like the invasive, authoritarian experience of someone peering into their car and perhaps asking them to step out.

 

I used to piss ‘em off and tell them I had fruit cake on board, you wanna taste!

[Flightrite]

Everything about virus control and movement restrictions by the Govts (both State and Federal) has been half-cocked from the word Go.

New legislation and highly punitive penalties were introduced, and the Police administered them on an ad-hoc basis with little understanding, and even less compassion. So much so, a percentage of the fines issued were cancelled.

 

I got a W.A. Movement Pass between regions, because I'm doing some freight movements. But then I find highways that are not even covered by roadblocks/checkpoints between the regions.

Then I find a roadblock/checkpoint, and it's staffed by a couple of Police and several soldiers. The soldiers are bored out of their brain, because this isn't what they signed up for - to stop people and ask where they're going.

 

I've downloaded the W.A. Govt G2G app, and I have the Q-code on my phone. So I ask the young soldier if he wants to see my paper pass (printed off my computer), or read my Q-code.

He says, "I'm sorry I can't read your Q-code, only the Police have Q-code scanners, so I'll have to look at your printed pass". I show him my pass, and he glances at it, and he's happy, and waves me through.

 

Now, I've been through several regional checkpoints at this point - and NOT ONE has asked me for any personal ID, in the form of an MDL! I could have pinched anyones G2G pass, and be someone completely different!

I would have thought, the very first thing to be done at checkpoints, is ask for ID to verify the persons identity. But no-o-o, that seems to be completely unnecessary in W.A.!

 

With the clusterfXXX associated with every piece of Govt legislation and movement controls at this point, I won't be downloading any app - which is bound to contain major flaws!!

What happens when someone steals your unlocked phone? They could travel through a list of infected people and you'd get all the penalties!! - for life!! There'd be no way of correcting any major errors in the system!!

 

And of course, we constantly have politicians telling us the app is safe and secure, when they themselves have no idea how it works!

The problem is also, that shortly, the virus controls will become secondary, as attention to the damaged economy, joblessness and other major disruptions will take over!

 

Nicely put, it boils down to "them & us", kinda the same as we have here amongst these pages??? Theres' the frightened ones & the rebels?

[Mike Borgelt]

The app exists so the governments of Australia can have a valid excuse get themselves out of the corner they have painted themselves into.

Sign up ! If enough do it we'll loosen the restrictions! And the sheep fall for it.

 

The State is not your friend, it has only ITS interests at heart, not yours. The pollies only care about re- election. Where else can you get a high paying job involving no real work?

[Flightrite]

The app exists so the governments of Australia can have a valid excuse get themselves out of the corner they have painted themselves into.

Sign up ! If enough do it we'll loosen the restrictions! And the sheep fall for it.

 

The State is not your friend, it has only ITS interests at heart, not yours. The pollies only care about re- election. Where else can you get a high paying job involving no real work?

 

Careful you'll be crucified there!??

[Mike Borgelt]

You can buy yourself a nice commemorative campaign patch or coffee mug here:

 

https://www.reaperpatches.com/products/operation-enduring-charlie-foxtrot-covid-19-preorder

 

They also have also have the more explicit version.

[ClintonB]

I had trouble downloading to a fairly new Samsung S10 5G phone. Kept getting messages stating invalid phone number. I ended up turning off, then on, then updating before it finally just worked.

I have contact with customers still even though sparse, also all day around my son who works there, I don’t believe he could follow directions even if he was a train on a track.

i would like to think it might help if I get the dreaded rona.

all the searching I do online still pops up on every device I use even if not logged in, so somebody is spying anyway.

[Old Koreelah]

...The pollies only care about re- election. Where else can you get a high paying job involving no real work?

Mike I share some of your concerns, but does your "no real work" comment stem from any personal experience? It may apply to a few, but during my decades of political activism I've got to know a few reps fairly well. What has amazed me is how much work is involved in their job.

The fact that so many chuck it all in for health or family reasons is cause for concern; we need our best people to represent us.

[M61A1]

we need our best people to represent us

True, but I think often the best ones won't go near the job, so what we get are well meaning , but incompetent or outright self serving, power hungry narcissists that know exactly what they are doing.

[onetrack]

The best people who should be running the country, are too busy running their own successful businesses. You wouldn't let any politician try to run a sweet shop next to a girls school, they'd send it broke.

[Old Koreelah]

The best people who should be running the country, are too busy running their own successful businesses. You wouldn't let any politician try to run a sweet shop next to a girls school, they'd send it broke.

Like Clive Palmer?

[KRviator]

He did say *successful*....That rules out Clive, dunnit?

[onetrack]

To call Clive Palmer a "successful businessman" is a joke. He's a real estate pegger and seller, he's made his billions pegging very valuable sections of Australia and selling it to the Chinese for billions.

He makes Alan Bond look like an amateur, in the scheming stakes. Then of course, there's his celebrated legal abilities. Threaten to sue anyone who offends him, then settle out of court, without ever arguing his case.

[Old Koreelah]

To call Clive Palmer a "successful businessman" is a joke. He's a real estate pegger and seller, he's made his billions pegging very valuable sections of Australia and selling it to the Chinese for billions.

He makes Alan Bond look like an amateur, in the scheming stakes. Then of course, there's his celebrated legal abilities. Threaten to sue anyone who offends him, then settle out of court, without ever arguing his case.

Sounds like our own Tronald Dump.

[facthunter]

Where's Dump's stranded assets?

[Student Pilot]

Sounds like our own Tronald Dump.

One thing Clive lacks is a 40 year history of female sexual assaults, you have to hand it to Trumpf, he's the best He has even beat the world with the most corona virus Deaths, leading the rest of the world by a fair margin yet he still blames the Chinese for America's problems. He has even got his puppet Pompus Pompeo to say it was a Chinese man made virus released on the world.