Words you should not use in ATC zones

[M61A1]

One of the nandy hints from one CFI when I was delaying my tutn to suit the radio "turn" call, was if the radio is full make the turn at the correct point, then call after.

There have been times I would nearly have been parked and shut down if I turned base when I was ready but waited for the radio traffic to finish. That's usually due to several unnecessarily longwinded calls rather than too much traffic.

[facthunter]

Get your brain into gear before your lips are in motion. You will have a better chance of appearing "sort of" with it..Nev

[ClintonB]

Is there such a thing as a ATC sim that could be used to practice radio calls, instead of talking to yourself like an idiot?

[facthunter]

Someone could make a programmed user reactive one. As said here by Turbo and others it needs to be Internal Australian ( Domestic) as there are variations in the US for example. I doubt there would be sufficient call for it but certainly would help as I and others reckon there has been a significant deterioration of standards and It's a safety matter, definitely. You are not a dill if you do it correctly as some cowboys may tend to regard it.. I think there's enough printed matter on Phraseology and phonetics and It's always worth spending time in a Tower if you arrange it.. There's many occasions you will practice calls if you stay in aviation. My wife (of 40 years on this Friday) probably knew type specific checklist calls and responses as well as I did when I was converting on a new type.. When things get busier again you might be able to arrange to sit in a plane at Tamworth and listen and ask questions if you have a concern. It will drain the battery so get permission so it can be recharged if needed. Perhaps arrange a session with your local pilot group and a CASA or Instructor even if you pay a bit for it. Anything that improves the standard is a step in the right direction. Nev

[Flightrite]

When I started to learn how to drive planes now over 40 years ago I bought a Tandy 'Realistic 2020' VHF scanner (I've still got it!) & hung off every word that pilots & ATC said, at the time I thought it as so complicated! Phraseologies have changed somewhat over the years but what I've noticed most these days is very poor R/T even from some so called professional drivers! A busy W/E around multiple 126.7 CTAF's and it's astonishing what one hears!

[Jerry_Atrick]

I did much the same thing - except I bought a transceiver as it makes a back up if the radios in the plane go kaput.. Of course, they don't have the same range as the fitted radsios with a decent VHF aerial, but it was a good excuse. The CAA here provide a free PDF download of radio phraseology requirements - CAP413 (not applicable to Aus). Does CASA do the same? If so, print out the relevant bits, which for VFR should be pretty minimal compared to say IFR, get yourself a receiver, listen to the calls and compare to what the requirements are- that will help drill things home..

 

Either Trevor Thom or Bob Tait should have a FRTO book and in these, there would normally have mnemonics for the calls. Commit these to memory.. Occasionally I have had to fall back on them.. there has been a second or two break in my speech, but I got the message out.. In our FRTO books, they say 1) determine what you want to say ahead of time; 2) make sure so no-one is already transmitting; 3) press the PTT button and wait a second as some older sets in particular can take a second from being pressed to transmitting - therefore if you start straight away, the beginning of your message may be chopped; 4) say what you have to say with the mic about an inch from your mouth - speak slower than normal (not too slow) and at normal voice volume; 4) wait until you have said everything before releasing the PPT button...

 

As an example in the UK, when making an enroute VFR freecall (contacting an ATC unit without being handed off to them by a previous ATC unit), after initial contact, the mnemonic is TRPACER (which is easy as it could be a tri-pacer).. It stands for Type, Route, Position, Altitude, Condition, Expected time at next turning point, Requested service...

 

So, when climbing out of Blackbushe, if I am not penetrating the Farnborough CTR, Blackbushe Information will tell me to freecall Farnborough..

 

The initial contact is:

Me: "Farnborough West, November two-zero tang bravo, request <service type>"

Farnborough Radar (West): November two-zero tango bravo, pass your message

 

Me:

"November two-zero tango bravo is a TB20" (T)

"From Blackbushe to Le Touquet via Popham" ®

"3 nautical miles west of Blackbushe" (P)

"one-tousand, fife hundred climbing tree-tousand on one-zero-one-niner" (A)

"VFR" ©

"Expect Popham two-fower" (estimate time at next turning point)

"Request Basic Service" ®

 

 

They will return with an area QNH, squawk code and type of service offered; and you just read them back., and at this stage I will ask them to open the flight plan as it is an international flight...

 

It is a lot of faff specific to the UK and most, including myself will omit the condition (VFR or IFR) and the expected time at next turning point. But, from the longwinded message it is.. I have occasionally had to stop and say the mnemonic in my head to get it all out correctly... And it doesn't matter if you do because it is better to take a second or two longer in that message then omit something vital or say something wrong...

 

You have to say the same think on requesting a join to the airfield.. It is a right royal pain in the proverbial - but it does allow you to show off your wankering skills in front of ignorant pax ;-)

Edited May 4, 2020 by Jerry_Atrick

[pmccarthy]

At Broken Hill the two airfield tenders were Tender 1 and Tender 2. The FSU guy called “Tender 2, Tender 2” and a young female student pilot responded “no, it’s twenty to three”.

[turboplanner]

I've tape recorded phrases to respond to and tried to learn them in the car on the way to work, programmed them with a space for reply, but these days it's easier.

Just make a table of phrases and responses down the page.

 

Click down 1 to get a surprise phrase from ATC, or the position at which you need to give a phrase.

Try to give the correct response

Click again to see the answer.

 

That avoids the answers being there visible, and allows you to quickly pick up your mistakes.

Best to start with circuit calls if you are pre-solo because that's what you'll be trying to give, and hearing from others.

 

As I mentioned before avoid overseas learning materials like the plague or you'll be stuffed for life trying to unlearn them when someone eventually picks you up on it.

[turboplanner]

Just make a table of phrases and responses down the page.

And you can make the table in Word, Excel, Google Docs or Google Charts

[jackc]

Just had a listen to this mess......

 

[Flightrite]

Some cranky people there on both sides?

[facthunter]

Don't watch the vision. It doesn't corelate with the audio .Nev

[turboplanner]

Don't watch the vision. It doesn't corelate with the audio .Nev

Given that it doesn't relate to RA and Australia, I couldn't see too many people studying it in that depth, but you never know.

[Flightrite]

Don't watch the vision. It doesn't corelate with the audio .Nev

 

I think we can see that Nev? We are visual creatures us humans ( we are very much into voyeurism) so having just audio with no vision would be unentertaining..lolol?

[M61A1]

The word "funny" in the title was the giveaway. It's for amusement, not learning radio coms.

[APenNameAndThatA]

So, do we say "to" and "four". If most people say "to" and "four" and a few people stop saying it, then that could cause more problems that people just saying "to" and "for". It seems to me that this might be the reason that people say "two thousand four hundred" instead of "two four hundred". Conclusions anyone?

[APenNameAndThatA]

My biggest hint to learning what to say is to listen to your local airport on the an app on your phone. People learn speech best by imitation. You know what to say and what to expect people to reply. One day, I was completely not expecting, "On bravo, cross 04 right, cross 04 left, hold at bravo five for 10 left", so I did not do to well.

[APenNameAndThatA]

Controllers at Archerfield have always been polite.

[facthunter]

Funny can mean"Funny ha HA" Or funny peculiar. I twigged to the unrelated visual when the plane requesting taxi still had the forward cargo door open. You notice these things when you've been around too long (or perhaps that's the reason you get to be around a long time). There were some REAL Rsole pilots there . The PA going world wide is an embarrassing thing. No, I haven't done it and now won't get the chance, and I've been Pax in a plane when the pilot made the company call on the PA. Those things are easy to do especially if you get rushed.. Nor have I forgotten to extend the gear, like it's said everyone will do eventually. Can't recall any other pilot doing it while I've been with them either. As much as it seems unfair the "Everybody Makes Mistakes" does not cut it in Aviation as an excuse. and you are NOT supposed to get angry or personal with anyone over the radio or use swear words. .Nev.

[turboplanner]

My biggest hint to learning what to say is to listen to your local airport on the an app on your phone. People learn speech best by imitation. You know what to say and what to expect people to reply. One day, I was completely not expecting, "On bravo, cross 04 right, cross 04 left, hold at bravo five for 10 left", so I did not do to well.

I used to do that too, until I realised I was listening to a percentage of incorrect procedures and calls, so I was back to the unlearning again.

[Flightrite]

Years ago during the fullsar +/- 2 mins reporting era (pre RA etc) R/T was much more articulated and conveyed, it was drummed in to you from day one to be professional even at grass roots level. Now we have RA etc it's too easy to get a ticket and the discipline is just not there! On any given nice day on a W/E it's almost criminal the poor R/T one hears today!☹

[Geoff_H]

I loved that Full SAR.

[Student Pilot]

I loved that Full SAR.

Your kidding? What a pain it was, especially in remote areas with HF.

[turboplanner]

Your kidding? What a pain it was, especially in remote areas with HF.

It was optional, what's the pain.

if you opted to FP with it and something went wrong not only were emergency services triggered automatically within 15 minutes of an overdue call, but they had your every move for the whole flight to the last reporting point.

It was only dropped due to cost.

[Student Pilot]

The pain was bad reception with HF, used to work fairly late and the HF used to go all squiggly.

Back in the olden days full reporting was mandatory, changed in the early 80's to voluntary?