Words you should not use in ATC zones

[turboplanner]

The pain was bad reception with HF, used to work fairly late and the HF used to go all squiggly.

Back in the olden days full reporting was mandatory, changed in the early 80's to voluntary?

A mix up of terms starting at #48

There wasn't such a thing as "Full SAR"

You could nominate a "SARTIME" or you could nominate "Full Reporting"

Full reporting was optional way back in the 1960s.

Full reporting gave you an extra margin of safety with more people watching you ready to help.

A lot of people didn't like the oversight, so just nominated a SARTIME.

With fill reporting if you were going to go wrong ATC would be aware of it turning pear-shape early in the piece, so you made sure you didn't screw up right through the flight (changing plans, delayed arrivals at the reporting point etc were met with a measured silence/sarcasm which egged you on to correct any mistake.

With SARTIME you could screw around during the flight, but people would be arriving after last light, fogetting to cancel SARTIME and they got into a lot more trouble a lot more times.

[Flightrite]

It was often known as FullSar (reporting) meaning full search and rescue within a short time frame if a report was missed.

[Student Pilot]

My memory must be going, I remember full reporting being mandatory. Having a sartime was part of the plan and if you were at place with a flight service the likes of Coffs, Bankstown or Kununurra you submitted a plan for full reporting with a sartime, otherwise you had to ring a plan in.That was for a private flight as well as commercial. Full reporting was VHF if coverage or HF remote areas.

Compared to normal life I wonder why aviation was so controlling. There weren't many accidents nor many fatalities compared to something like farming or even just driving generally in Australia.

In 1969 the road toll was 3,500 and yet you could drive without plans or schedules. On country roads people have been running off the road and not been found for days. Why the difference with aviation?

[turboplanner]

My memory must be going, I remember full reporting being mandatory. Having a sartime was part of the plan and if you were at place with a flight service the likes of Coffs, Bankstown or Kununurra you submitted a plan for full reporting with a sartime, otherwise you had to ring a plan in.That was for a private flight as well as commercial.

Full Reporting was full reporting at every report point including the last one, so what you are talking about there is a Sartime flight plan which was the mandatory one.

Effecively Full Reporting was a series of Sartime flights. If you nominated six reporting points on your flight, SAR could be triggered at any one of the six points, plus your flight was being treated something like a CTA flight is today with Melbourne Centre monitoring your check point arrivals, handing off to NSW, NSW monitoring your NSW checkpoints, handing off to Qld and Qld monitoring your Qld checkpoints. The operators had your chip in the slot all the way and didn't hold back if they thought you were starting to screw up - they'd go over to full time communication with you. Heard that a number of times as they walked someone home e.g. Two old guys in a Tiger Moth calling in "We're lost!" No maps on board so they worked him towards roads, then after about 30 minutes managed to identify a major road intersection then stayed on while he flew home using the road for reference while they used the WAC.

[Flightrite]

......."full reporting was a series of Sartime flights", spot on, that's exactly why it was often known/called "FullSar"?

[turboplanner]

......."full reporting was a series of Sartime flights", spot on, that's exactly why it was often known/called "FullSar"?

You're using the words "often known/called", so it may hjave been called that in your area, but FULL REPORTING it SARTIME were different reporting processes, and should have been taught as such. It was always the Sartime people who were making the news.

[facthunter]

Most of the news was from people landing and forgetting to cancel SAR and creating an unnecessary search. Cost cutting and cost recovery was the main reason for ending that. We had aeradio 122.1 all over the place. Many of the frequencies you have today aren't reliably available for on the ground use .You can cancel 'in the air or report" in the circuit Wop Woop will cancel on ground by ( time) 'and phone if you have coverage. You can relay through other aircraft if it can be arranged but the onus is on you to cancel. effectively. If you were on full reporting and you went over the two minutes they raised an uncertainty Phase . So if you slowed up amend your ETA for the next reporting point or you would get a " ABC, are your OPS normal" call and an incident report CA 225..Maybe. You could also go NOSAR NO DETAILS B 050. in the bottom corner of the flight plan. There's a bit of history for you. Nev

[Flightrite]

You're using the words "often known/called", so it may hjave been called that in your area, but FULL REPORTING it SARTIME were different reporting processes, and should have been taught as such. It was always the Sartime people who were making the news.

You believe what ya want!! That's the way it was portrayed for me over 40 years ago!

Edited May 8, 2020 by Flightrite

[turboplanner]

Most of the news was from people landing and forgetting to cancel SAR and creating an unnecessary search. Cost cutting and cost recovery was the main reason for ending that. We had aeradio 122.1 all over the place. Many of the frequencies you have today aren't reliably available for on the ground use .You can cancel 'in the air or report" in the circuit Wop Woop will cancel on ground by ( time) 'and phone if you have coverage. You can relay through other aircraft if it can be arranged but the onus is on you to cancel. effectively. If you were on full reporting and you went over the two minutes they raised an uncertainty Phase . So if you slowed up amend your ETA for the next reporting point or you would get a " ABC, are your OPS normal" call and an incident report CA 225..Maybe. You could also go NOSAR NO DETAILS B 050. in the bottom corner of the flight plan. There's a bit of history for you. Nev

Yes, that's the way it was. I forgot about NOSAR NO DETAILS, so unless someone has some Air Leg we can look at it's unlikely that SARTIME ever was compulsory.

[facthunter]

For Charter and MOST revenue flights I think it was. Even "Airwork, AWK" you would call say each 30 minutes and say "ABC, OPS normal will report on the hour, 45 etc.". Reporting is a running sartime as if you fail a POSITION report an action results. SAR means Search and Rescue. You stipulated sartime could be an hour after your landing ETA to allow for communication delays although such delays would make the whole process less effective from the rescue aspect.

Instructional flights I can't recall doing any calls or sartime unless in controlled airspace where ongoing clearances are required anyhow.. .Nev

[turboplanner]

Instructional flights I can't recall doing any calls or sartime unless in controlled airspace where ongoing clearances are required anyhow.. .Nev

No that was NOSAR NO DETAILS, probably because the training areas were set up so debris could be seen or the big bang heard.

[facthunter]

You just don't want external distractions when in the middle of say, a spin recovery or a low flying exercise. I think the B (elow) 050 (5,000) was the key there with no sar or details. That concept still exists with RAAus unless recently changed with flying levels with tracking (quadrantal) Nev.

[Downunder]

Compared to normal life I wonder why aviation was so controlling. There weren't many accidents nor many fatalities compared to something like farming or even just driving generally in Australia.

In 1969 the road toll was 3,500 and yet you could drive without plans or schedules. On country roads people have been running off the road and not been found for days. Why the difference with aviation?

I ask myself that everyday.