Navigation Using VOR?

[jackc]

How many people use VOR as part of their cross country navigation?

[Jerry_Atrick]

Still do...

[mnewbery]

If it's installed in a GA plane, part of the PPL exam is to show an understanding of how it works by using it. Apart from that, the GNS 430 and similar can slave the course deviation indicator using any GPS waypoint as if the waypoint was a VOR station

[old man emu]

If everyone used GPS, would AirServices be justified in decommissioning radio-navigation aids?

[Geoff_H]

If it's installed in a GA plane, part of the PPL exam is to show an understanding of how it works by using it. Apart from that, the GNS 430 and similar can slave the course deviation indicator using any GPS waypoint as if the waypoint was a VOR station

A GNS430 has a VOR tuner in it. Independent of the GPS section. I had a GNS 430 and it had a faulty tuner. I had to upgrade to WAAS to get it fixed. Cost me a fortune.

Geoff

[kgwilson]

I doubt whether anyone in an RA aircraft uses VOR. They are shutting them down around the world as GPS based navigation systems are cheap, with infinite range and more accurate. I think only older GA aircraft have VOR installed these days. In 2016 CASA announced nearly half of the 400 ground based navigation systems (VOR, NDB & ILS) would be decommissioned but gave no timeframe.

[Jabiru7252]

I haven't used VOR or ADF since the 90s, that's only because I no longer fly GA aircraft with that equipment on board. Used to be fun and gave one a sense of achievement when you got it right. Any fool can use a GPS and I still reckon many LSA pilots would be f***ed if their GPS died because they can't use a map and compass.

[facthunter]

You are probably right. Being able to parallel track is handy. GPS is so accurate it can make it less safe EVERYONE is dead on track so vertical separation becomes absolutely necessary to be right on. every time. Nev.

[GraemeK]

Whenever there is a VOR around, I tune to it so it's there if I need. Navigation by autopilot/GPS though.

[facthunter]

Handy for a holding reference. Nev

[Geoff_H]

I used to like the ADF to get the cricket when crossing the nulabor ? Shame that they closed them down, well maybe not. I used to hate night flying on an ADF, VOR was much easier.

Geoff

[kgwilson]

Yes I used to listen to music on AM stations when on long flights. I never used the ADF for navigation.

[Student Pilot]

Yes I used to listen to music on AM stations when on long flights. I never used the ADF for navigation.

If fitted I used to do the same, you could usually get an ABC channel Never used for navigation

[Geoff_H]

I used to love navigation and Full SAR. Shame it all went with GPS. However for those outback Navs GPS is so much easier. I became a magenta line jockey ?

[jackc]

If everyone used GPS, would AirServices be justified in decommissioning radio-navigation aids?

 

That would be a bad move, based on the fact we have Solar Cycle 25 peaking in 5 years time and increasing solar flares over that time. To phase out traditional Nav-aids in the future might compromise our navigation safety IF GPS is affected?

There is much information on the Internet about it.

 

https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/impacts/space-weather-and-gps-systems

[kgwilson]

Solar flares can affect all radio frequencies so VOR, ADF & ILS can also malfunction. In theory a really large Coronal Mass Ejection (CME) could disrupt all electronic communications on earth. If this was to happen almost all of our electrical systems, electronic gadgets, and all our global communications systems would fail. This would cause complete chaos due to our reliance on all of these things. This happened in 1859 when the Aurora Borealis could be seen from Cuba, compasses were rendered useless and telegraph systems failed. This was caused by a CME also known as a solar superstorm. How long it would last though is anyones guess.

[old man emu]

Coronal Mass Ejection (CME) could disrupt all electronic communications on earth. If this was to happen almost all of our electrical systems, electronic gadgets, and all our global communications systems would fail.

 

If it happened, the only twitters you'd know about would be from the little birdies. Can you imagine the psychological conditions of the Millenials?

[Jerry_Atrick]

The UK has been slow to adopt GPS apporaches, therefore, it has been slower to decommission radio navaids, though is doing it. However, I like doing things sometimes the "old way". I will manually mark the maps, do the PLOG, dial in the VOR/ADF/DME. Of course, I will use the GPS - we have an Avidyne 540 and I use Skydemon (OzRunways equivalent) to flight plan. I cross check my PLOG to Skydemon's. Occasionally there have been differences and I am happy to say, even less occasionally, the my differences weren't my ones to be corrected..

 

I learned through a minor mishap that I fly VFR using my PLOG and map; One time, in the PA28 Shareoplane I had, which did have Skymap III, that I would go to a work meeting in West Wales by plane as the client's office was a short taxi ride from the airport. As it was last minute, I did the plan throgh Skydemon and relied on it's moving map to navigate me there. From juest west of Cardiff, both the device and the Skymap were unable to get a GPS signal. Thankfully, I printed out the PLOG, picked a feature in the distance on my heading and flew to it.. Was probably the most accurate track I have ever flown...

[Student Pilot]

People would have to use maps instead of GPS, the trauma

[Jerry_Atrick]

Hmmm.. Just went onto Skydemon to check the NOTAMs, and noticed Fairoaks, my previous airfield has just permanently withdrawn their NDB... Guess they now have a published GPS approach (they have been wanting one for about 5 years from memory).

[jackc]

Solar flares can affect all radio frequencies so VOR, ADF & ILS can also malfunction. In theory a really large Coronal Mass Ejection (CME) could disrupt all electronic communications on earth. If this was to happen almost all of our electrical systems, electronic gadgets, and all our global communications systems would fail. This would cause complete chaos due to our reliance on all of these things. This happened in 1859 when the Aurora Borealis could be seen from Cuba, compasses were rendered useless and telegraph systems failed. This was caused by a CME also known as a solar superstorm. How long it would last though is anyones guess.

 

I would suspect VOR would be least affected as they only transmit, the VHF receiver being in the aircraft. The aircraft receiver may receive interference which could reduce VOR range? Regardless, VOR would be first to recover if affected.

whereas a GPS network of satellites would take time to recover.

[Flightrite]

Ground based aids will eventually be non existent. GBAS and dareratives of its principle will be all that's available in the future apart from stand alone GPS. I don't know how I ever lived without the magenta line!

[Jabiru7252]

You are probably right. Being able to parallel track is handy. GPS is so accurate it can make it less safe EVERYONE is dead on track so vertical separation becomes absolutely necessary to be right on. every time. Nev.

One should always fly on the right side of the GPS track.

[jackc]

Ground based aids will eventually be non existent. GBAS and dareratives of its principle will be all that's available in the future apart from stand alone GPS. I don't know how I ever lived without the magenta line!

 

But GBAS also needs satellites as part of its implementation?

 

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/techops/navservices/gnss/laas/

[mnewbery]

Ground based aids will eventually be non existent. GBAS and dareratives of its principle will be all that's available in the future apart from stand alone GPS. I don't know how I ever lived without the magenta line!

I get that sentiment. Someone told me its not a bad idea to keep the whizz wheel and paper map skills up-to-date just to keep things interesting