Insurance

[Bruce Tuncks]

I start from the point that insurance companies are unhappy when there is a payout. What I would like to see is a buyers group which represents insurance buyers and publicises their cases.

The effect of this would be that more than one person knows of and is considering moving as a result of a refusal to pay a claim.

Is there such a group?

[turboplanner]

Not that I know of; the insurance industry is based on offsetting the risk like bookies so they just pick it up on future policy charges.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I am not sure about Aus, but there are legal cooperatives here that will look at a claim refusal or paltry settlement offer and take on the case for a heavily sunsidised rate. Mercamtile and insurance law is based on olde English precedence whcihm when you consider, thelords andjustices were lloyds underwritiers, were unwilling to find in favour of claimants unless as obvious on the noses of their faces. The tides are turning here.. Hopefully in Aus, too..

[Bruce Tuncks]

Good point Jerry. I would prefer to deal with a co-op insurer , but a co-op to represent your case would be better than nothing. I find it amazing how people trust insurance companies.

[onetrack]

A good insurance broker is your best bet against dealing with dodgy insurance companies.

[facthunter]

Just go around to people who are really in the game are and ask them especially those who do big repairs to airframes. Same with CARs .Crash repairers...They know which ones won't pay a decent price to repair stuff. It's close to a MONOPOLY there anyhow which should never have been allowed to happen. Nev

[Yenn]

Speaking from experience I have found QBE to be good at fixing claims. I made a claim which was dealt with quickly and surprisingly easily. The premiums are high but when the payouts are also high, it is obvious why.

Car insurance is a different ball game. It is many years since I made a claim and I am still annoyed about the time and hassles involved in getting it fixed up. I reckon there is a lot of padding of work done by aviation repair facilities

[turboplanner]

Speaking from experience I have found QBE to be good at fixing claims. I made a claim which was dealt with quickly and surprisingly easily. The premiums are high but when the payouts are also high, it is obvious why.

Car insurance is a different ball game. It is many years since I made a claim and I am still annoyed about the time and hassles involved in getting it fixed up. I reckon there is a lot of padding of work done by aviation repair facilities

Must have been a long time ago.

How would you like to (a) tell the tow truck operator to take your car to the Insurer's reception centre or (b) make an appointment to drive it in.

Then 2,3,4,5,weeks etc (depending on the severity) drop off your loan car aftetr fillin it with fuel, and pick up your repaired car?

[Bruce Tuncks]

My daughter had a claim with QBE. They disallowed it and she went to the ombudsman in Vic and a year later won. So QBE changed their story and refused again. So back to the ombudsman and another year passed and she won again and this time they paid out. It was only a small claim after a heavy branch blew down in a storm and damaged her new artificial turf.

[Flightrite]

A good insurance broker is your best bet against dealing with dodgy insurance companies.

Good advice. I go thru a broker but I do a quick search around when renewal time is up myself, QBE are the worst!

[Bruce Tuncks]

Do you mean the highest premiums Flight? I reckon the important thing is the payout ratio, that is the % of claims settled without a fight. Of course they won't tell you this figure but they sure know it themselves.

[Flightrite]

Do you mean the highest premiums Flight? I reckon the important thing is the payout ratio, that is the % of claims settled without a fight. Of course they won't tell you this figure but they sure know it themselves.

Yes sorry, highest premium sorry, never made a claim in my entire life....phew!?

[Fred Nurk]

I had a claim a couple of years ago. Aircraft blown over and written off. QBE were excellent. Can only go on my personal experience.

[jackc]

A good insurance broker is your best bet against dealing with dodgy insurance companies.

A good insurance broker will sell you a policy he can make the most Money from. Just look at I-Select who got done for ripping people off. Choosi don’t do for cheap either.

It’s not insurance anymore, it’s risk mitigation, for the most money they can charge.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Insurance is for when you can't afford to payout the max figure. If you can afford the loss, then you are stupid to insure. Given normal luck, you will get back a third of your premiums.

SO if you make a new graduate doctor into a quadriplegic, the payout might be 10 million. Well I can't afford this.

But if I damaged the Jabiru landing in a rough paddock, yes I can afford the time and cost of repairs.

The upshot is that I need third-party insurance but not hull insurance.

[turboplanner]

Insurance is for when you can't afford to payout the max figure. If you can afford the loss, then you are stupid to insure. Given normal luck, you will get back a third of your premiums.

SO if you make a new graduate doctor into a quadriplegic, the payout might be 10 million. Well I can't afford this.

But if I damaged the Jabiru landing in a rough paddock, yes I can afford the time and cost of repairs.

The upshot is that I need third-party insurance but not hull insurance.

Well if there's an electrical short and it burns to ashes in the Hangar you're going to have a problem with that strategy, and if it's stolen and vener recovered, same problem. If you are prepared to write that investment off then no problem. I think I can afford about $20,000 of towing bills before I catch up to what I would have paid RACV for towing.

[Flightrite]

Insurance is a personel thing, optional (mostly) your choice! I have my main assets insured, minor things I am happy to accpet the risk. Each to their own?

[Bruce Tuncks]

For some years I insured my glider for road risks. This came about because I found that my caravan was cheaper to insure than my glider in its trailer. After a lot of complaining, like saying how there was no cooking in the glider trailer, they relented and gave me caravan rates for the glider in its trailer.

Can you insure a plane for ground risks only? I would consider that. Not that long ago, the club here lost a Jabiru in its hangar from an elecrical fire.

[Bruce Tuncks]

Not that I would be prepared to pay that much... what is the risk? 1 in 1000? If so, the premium should be = (payout/1000)times 3, so for a $30,000 sum the premium should be $90 per year. That is allowing the premium income to exceed payout by 3 times.

1 in 1000 is a very generous estimate in favour of the insurance company. How many planes did we ( RAAus ) lose last year in hangar fires?

[jackc]

Maybe

I start from the point that insurance companies are unhappy when there is a payout. What I would like to see is a buyers group which represents insurance buyers and publicises their cases.

The effect of this would be that more than one person knows of and is considering moving as a result of a refusal to pay a claim.

Is there such a group?

Consider as part of our RAAus membership that some unbiased research is done to the benefit of members in seeking out insurance companies who will offer reasonable policy conditions and premiums.

Our Ham Radio peak body has done this for all radio clubs and their members to cover them for activities etc etc, maybe a scheme could be done to get good rates and policy conditions for RAAus members on their aircraft?

[facthunter]

Bruce I insured My Citabria fully when on the ground and 3rd party in the air. I reckoned if it's wrecked in the air I'll have bigger worries than the hull loss. Brokers get kick backs no doubt, but they may also get concessions if they select the customer(s) wisely. Insurers hate pilots with not much experience, especially with tailwheel planes. I've never damaged anything or made a claim. The next bloke who bought it from me wrote it off. Nev

[kiwiaviator]

I have been involved from a club perspective with two separate accidents (not me) and insurance has paid out each time with no fuss.

[johnm]

if you are part of a club ................. that group should investigate using the one insurer .................. there are some good benefits to be had (for both insured and insurer)